The And She Looked Up Podcast
Every other week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love. Your host, Melissa Hartfiel, left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, illustrator, writer, community co-founder and has owned and operated a multi-six figure a year creative content business. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
The And She Looked Up Podcast
EP180: Looking Back at 2024 and Ahead to 2025 in Our Creative Businesses
As we close out 2024, Heather and Melissa reflect on the ups and downs of the past year and look ahead to what's coming in 2025. This episode highlights the core theme of finding joy amid challenges as we close out one year and being another.
Here's a quick recap of what we get into!
• Recap of 2024 and its unexpected challenges
• Importance of joy in art and creativity
• Personal growth through grief and creativity
• Strategies for nurturing community and connection
• Setting intentions for a vibrant 2025
• Encouragement to embrace personal projects and small victories
This episode is brought to you by our Premium Subscriber Community on Patreon and Buzzsprout.
You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.
You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.
You can connect with the podcast on:
- Instagram at @andshelookedup
- YouTube
- Tik Tok at @AndSheLookedUp
For a list of all available episodes, please visit:
And She Looked Up Creative Hour Podcast
Each week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.
Your host, Melissa Hartfiel (@finelimedesigns), left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, writer and illustrator as well as the co-founder of a multi-six figure a year business in the digital content space. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
This week's episode of the and she Looked Up podcast is brought to you by our premium subscriber community on Patreon and Buzzsprout. Their ongoing financial support of the show ensures I can continue to bring the podcast to you. Want to help out? Head over to patreoncom. Forward slash, and she looked up. That's patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com. Forward slash, and she looked up. That's Patreon P-A-T-R-E-O-Ncom. Forward slash, and she looked up. There you can join the community for free or you can choose to be a premium supporter for $4.50 a month, and that's in Canadian dollars. Paid supporters get access to a monthly exclusive podcast episode only available to premium subscribers. You can also click the support the show link in the episode notes on your podcast player to support us via Buzzsprout, where you will also get access to each month's exclusive premium supporter episode. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all our monthly supporters. They are the engine that keeps the podcast running and they're a pretty cool bunch too. And now let's get on with the show.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the and she Looked Up podcast. Each week we sit down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. I'm your host, melissa Hartfield, and, after leaving a 20-year career in corporate retail, I've been happily self-employed for 12 years. I'm a graphic designer, an illustrator and a multi-six-figure-a-year entrepreneur in the digital content space. This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the and she Looked Up podcast. As always, I am your host, melissa, and this is the last episode of 2024. So, of course, heather Travis is here with me today. Hello, hey, heather. So, yes, this is going to be our last episode for the year, not for the season, just for 2024.
Speaker 1:So we thought we would do one of our kind of recap, looking to the future type episodes that we tend to do every year. We thought about stopping them, but then we heard from several of you that you really like those ones. So here we are. Here we go. So, yes, we are going to well. I guess we'll just start off maybe with just a little bit of a recap on how our 2024s went, and then we'll get into what we have planned for 2025 or where we think things are going in 2025, and maybe talk about some of the challenges that I know a lot of us are worried about for next year. Yeah, so yeah, heather, how has your year been? What has your year been? This?
Speaker 2:year's been crazy. It's been totally unexpected. Honestly, if you had asked me two years ago where I thought 2024 would be, uh, I would definitely not have said where it was. Uh it. I took a full-time job, which many of the podcast listeners know, and that's been just a total gift, and I think it's more the industry that I'm in developmental services it's been a really I feel like the Grinch. Every day my heart grows two sizes bigger and I experience that every day, which is such a blessing.
Speaker 2:Artistically, I haven't created a lot. You know, wrapping up my exhibition was a big deal and really exalt. Like that whole process was absolutely, absolutely shattering. It was the most beautiful shattering, like I couldn't have asked to be shattered for any better reason, but I was shattered and like just mentally, physically, everything, even artistically. And I think part of what contributed to the hesitation to create a little bit more is that I have a lot of unsold artwork from that exhibition still, and I try very hard to not let that be deflating, but it is because every time I go to my studio to create, there is a stack of canvases of unsold artwork that I'm incredibly proud of. And so, while I am a very frugal person and quite often repaint canvases once they've sort of you know, lived their life. So much of the work for that exhibition will never get painted over it. It lives. It will always live, whether it's in a thrift shop or in my mom's garage. Uh, it will live. It needs, at least I need, to give it the opportunity to live its life as a created piece of artwork that I meant and very was so deliberate about putting it on the canvas, but it is still deflated. It hasn't sold.
Speaker 2:I have been doing a lot of experimenting. We talked about that in a previous episode. This year has been a hugely experimental trying different things, not sharing it online, different things not sharing it online, which is experimental in itself for me, keeping things to myself and just trying things, throwing spaghetti against the wall, metaphorically speaking, and I think that's yeah. And I think also, too, this year has been a lot of deliberately not doing, and I'm okay. I'm okay with that.
Speaker 2:I needed to shift my focus to other things and I think I've been flexing my creativity in other places. I've been doing lots of interesting freelance work and some pretty cool logo design for some cool clients. I've been really doing some cool mural projects those fill my cup up artistically and the work I do even you know it's creative writing and interesting social media posts and you know I create fun posters and event tickets and like there's fun things that I get to do creatively that still fill my cup. They're just so totally different from what I had been doing for the few years before that. But interestingly, when I look at the years leading up to those years, they were also drastically different. I think that's the joy of being a creative is that it's not actually same same. It is drastically different and creatively it's quite cool to see where the river just takes us, you know so that's kind of what?
Speaker 2:that's kind of what the year's been for me um super highs, super lows, a lot of holy fuck. What the fuck is happening with my life right now.
Speaker 2:You know which Melissa and I talked a little bit about offline, but life is crazy, and but it also, I think also, the extreme, the extremes of this year have reminded me and have been such a beautiful opportunity. I am always a glass half full person, and this has reminded me that that is a gift to be that person, and I and the and the people around me are a gift, and I have a lot of incredible friends and family and people who I know just through Instagram, who, whether they knew it or not, were a great source of joy in my life, and so that's, you know, I just keep trudging along and reflecting on all the good and, yeah, seeing where it takes me, but I'm looking forward to 2025, I'll tell you that much. Yeah, and what about you, melissa? 2024?.
Speaker 1:Crazy. I feel like I'm going to sneeze right now, so I'm just.
Speaker 1:I think it might be some sub 2024 for me actually like hold, I'm gonna sneeze just as you were coming, I knew you were gonna throw it over to me and I'm like I'm gonna sneeze. Yeah, 2024 has been, um, not what I wanted it to be at all or not what I thought it would be at all. And I'm I'm, I'm feeling very much at a crossroads right now. My mastermind group we have our annual goal setting video call next week to talk about our plans for 2025. And I'm feeling very just, I don't even know the word to use lost, maybe Not ho-hum, I mean I just more like I don't know the direction I want to go in or where I want to put my focus. I know I need to make more money. I did not hit my revenue goal this year. I made more than last year, but unless I have like an amazing month in December, but I already know I'm not going to hit my and that, Thank you.
Speaker 2:Canada post like do you know how many small?
Speaker 1:businesses got screwed in the last that has been huge.
Speaker 1:Yes, I wound up closing both my Etsy shops. I kept my Shopify store open. Most of what I ship goes letter mail, which there's just no alternative for in Canada, and so I'm using chit chats where I can, or that was the plan, but anything under 100 grams I still can't send. But you know what, based on what happened to me and everyone I've been talking to, online sales just dried up as soon as that strike went into effect. I haven't had a single order since November, like not a single order since the strike started, and I had to delay my. I do a big sale for my newsletter subscribers instead of a Black Friday sale every year. I had to delay that. About half my customers are in rural areas where there's just no options.
Speaker 1:And it was also, you know, I consider myself pro-union and I was so angry I could go off on a rant here. I probably shouldn't. I was so angry at the government for deciding to send them back to work. You know, a week and a half before Christmas, like that doesn't help anyone If you weren't going to fix it earlier. Just let them ride it out. Let them figure it out themselves, because you've ruined it Totally. You've ruined the season four.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally.
Speaker 1:GST holiday, like the small business minister was on the news talking about it the other day and I was like we have a small business minister. Where have you been all year?
Speaker 2:No kidding News to many.
Speaker 1:And rail strikes and mail strikes, and now you're throwing this tax holiday at us at the worst time of year for us to put that into practice, and it's not even a great like when you actually I can't believe how many people thought that this tax holiday was on everything. Like people, I've seen so many people ranting like I went to Walmart and they charged me taxes on everything and it's like, yeah, it's only like four or five categories that are exempted, so it's just the lack of small business support in this country this year has been very frustrating and you know your husband runs a small business.
Speaker 1:You run a small business. Like we all know. It's been a very frustrating year and it yep and I have never, ever. I've been self-employed for for 15 years now and I have never seen the number of small business closure notices. Yes, that I have seen in the last two months so many businesses I have known for years and years have announced that they're closing at the end of the year permanently and and so, other than the Canada post-strike, how has 2024 treated you? Omit the strike. I know Well, it's not just the strike.
Speaker 2:It's just markets.
Speaker 1:I had to cancel all my winter markets because I got a puppy Very unexpectedly. Was not planning on bringing a puppy home until next fall.
Speaker 1:But life happens, yeah, and yeah, I know he was just, uh, way too young to leave home alone. Um, yes, For for full market days, so he wasn't vaccinated yet, so I couldn't leave him right anywhere else. Yeah, so I canceled my market. So, so that also was a hit to my, yeah, a q4 trade-off, but services wise, I have had my best q4 that I've ever had. Amazing. That has been great. And if I had had my q4 revenue that I had been hoping for from my illustration business, I would have hit my revenue goal for the year, I'm pretty sure. So, so, you know, a little frustrating, but I wouldn't trade my puppy for anything.
Speaker 2:He is a whirling dervish.
Speaker 1:I have been too exhausted to really do anything more than what I absolutely have to get done. Yeah, but we'll get through that. He's, he's, he's, yeah. It's just, we're in the teething stage right now and it takes till. They're about six months. You've had dogs, you know it's like, once they're six months, things tend to settle down. Other problems arise, but oh, totally yeah, they don't chew all the furniture 24, seven once they hit about six or seven months. So, um, so yeah, there's, I think.
Speaker 1:But you know, as I was prepping for this meeting I have next week, I was looking through all my goals for the year and I just I didn't hit anything, like I just and I think what I realized with bringing Joey, my puppy home in the first few weeks is I just realized how completely overwhelmed with grief I had been this year and not even realizing it. And you know grief for my dog, grief for my relationship that ended, grief for having to sell a business that I loved, and we lost some family members this summer. Like it's just, it all just compounded and I thought I was managing it, dealing with it. But once Grief is tricky like that, grief is very tricky and it's never the same twice Like it's different every, every.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and then bringing this puppy home and suddenly realizing how much I had to be present. Yes, I realized how much I had not been present all year, like it was, like I completely detached from the world and was just basically doing the work I had to do, and then in the evening, just sitting there watching TV and doing nothing, eating basically, and, and except during gardening season, I'd go out and garden for an hour.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And that seemed to be the only thing that kind of soothed my soul a little bit. So so yeah, it's been kind of. It hasn't been the year that I wanted I, I, I, yeah it it is. It's been a blip, I think. I hope it's a blip, but I feel like I'm starting. I feel like this puppy has forced me to come out of the mist and really start focusing on other things and that is what I'm hoping to do.
Speaker 1:But as we get into talking about 2025 and I don't know how you feel about this or what but one of the things is I've been really thinking about what I want to do is a lot of my goals for 2025 are similar-ish to 2024, with a few exceptions, but what I realized is that I'm doing the same thing every year to try and accomplish these goals, and I'm not really moving the needle in the way that I want to, and so I think that's where I'm a little bit stuck right now, and why I'm feeling a bit blah is because I feel like I feel like I can't keep doing the same thing over and over.
Speaker 1:You know the definition of insanity is like banging your hands around and expecting things change, or doing the same thing over and over again and wondering why nothing changes. And so I just realized a lot of the strategies I'm using are strategies that worked five or six years ago, but I think they don't work anymore and I think I don't know what does work. I don't know what direction to go in with all the things that I'm thinking about for 2025.
Speaker 1:And I feel like there needs to be a big shakeup, and I think part of the reason I was doing the same thing over and over again is because it did work for a long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah to keep doing things you know work, even though it's not necessarily pushing the envelope forward or challenging you or pushing you out of your comfort zone. So that is what I. That's sort of where I've ended the year and now I'm trying to like I have a list of things I'd like to see happen in 2025, but I don't know how to make them happen. I'm feeling very lost and a little bit yeah, lost I guess that's the best word for it. Yep, yes, yeah. Anyway, thank you for letting me vent and have a little therapy session there, because I think I needed it. Thank you all for listening to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah exactly yeah. So for 2025, what are you hoping to see happen? Like you've got a lot that's in flux right now. So have you put together some ideas of what you want to see in 2025? Are you just going to wing it or somewhere in between?
Speaker 2:Somewhere in between. Honestly, I waffle between. I mean, my general modus operandi for a lot of things is like fuck around and find out. At the same time, I feel like there is an opportunity to shake things up and you know I can't like one one of the deep thoughts I do a lot of. I need a whiteboard in the shower, or like I need Alexa in the shower. I need something so that I can be like capture my thought, because the number of times I literally yell from the shower to Brian, I'm like get a notepad Because I have a lot of deep thoughts in the shower.
Speaker 2:But one of the thoughts that I've had recently is if I am so proud of this artwork, what is it doing stacked in my studio?
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you that. That was one of my questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so how can I get more eyeballs on it? Is that hosting more studio open houses? More studio open houses? Is that the, the only hitch, and you know it's. It's just a logistics nightmare to get everything from point a to point b.
Speaker 2:That's the, the hitch with my artwork. It's large to require, like it doesn't all fit in my car. I would need to drive back and forth four or five times. Uh, a couple of the pieces don't even fit in my car. Like it's just that just won't work, and so, logistically, I need to figure that out.
Speaker 2:I need to, I need. There's a few things that I just need to jump over. And if it's worth the hurdle, so if it's not a weekend of showing my artwork and me driving back and forth, but if it's a month long, you know opportunity, and that's where I just need to. I need to make those opportunities, because I think one of the things that I have gotten complacent on is that recently things just started to sort of come to me, and I know that you make your own luck. So obviously I was putting myself out there, I was talking to the right people, I had artwork hanging in the right places in order for all of the things to come to me, but right now I'm sort of just. I feel like I'm riding a horse. I've been riding too long.
Speaker 1:That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and I just need to change it up a little bit, um, and so that's my big I know it sounds waffly, but that's my big thing for 2025 is, I think I need to to change things up, uh, and perhaps change focus a little bit. I really love doing murals, like really, really, they require quite a lot of pitching effort. That's something I need to find time to do, but I think if I dedicate myself to it, that's something I could be successful with. And so there's a couple things that I just want to do more of. And yeah, and I'm okay changing it up honestly, and I'm okay changing it up honestly, I'm okay changing it up. I am quite happy to to like, I'm an.
Speaker 2:I just did a talk recently but how you identify, and one of the things was how you identify yourself and I, even though I have a full-time job, I still consider that my side hustle. When I sit down next to somebody at a dinner party, when I meet somebody in line at the post office, what do you do? I'm an artist with a capital A. I'm an artist. That's how I identify, but that doesn't mean that I just paint on canvas or that I'm just a muralist. It could mean a lot of different things, and so I'm quite happy to embrace the capital A artist and just wind wherever that takes me, but I think I really do. To continue the analogy, I really think I need to get a new horse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I fully. I think you and I are feeling very similar actually, and I think the way you just said it, you know just been riding the same horse for too long. I think that's a really good way to kind of capture how I'm feeling too is just uh, just need to shake it up.
Speaker 1:I don't like being a follower, I like being a forges their own path, and you are very similar in that respect and uh, yeah, right now I feel like I'm just kind of treading water, treading, yeah, and and not um, yeah, so that's. And you said something else there too that, um, I was thinking about earlier this week speaking to somebody else about how, um, um, not not necessarily that you are lucky, but that you kind of make your own luck and you plant a lot of seeds and you get things in the right places and it comes to fruition, and I think that's so important.
Speaker 1:We've talked about this a lot on the show, about planting seeds and getting things out there and that does have a snowball effect. And then it starts to snowball and you have all these things coming in and you're having a great time doing them all. But while you're focused on them all, you stop putting seeds out right and so.
Speaker 1:I think that's a challenge for a lot of us is like we put the seeds out, things start happening, and then we get so caught up in executing all these amazing things that the seeds we stopped scattering the seeds Correct, and so when those things come to an end, we're like, ah, I got to go back out into the garden and chuck some seeds around again, exactly. I think that's probably where we're both at. We've kind of and that's one of the things I really noticed this year. Like I I was getting at the beginning of the year I got so much word of mouth um, uh mouth business for the services side of what I do, and so I was just madly trying to bring all these people on and not screw things up too badly, which I kind of did, but that forced me to get systems in place.
Speaker 1:Fortunately, I don't think anybody really noticed beyond me, but I was completely overwhelmed, and so, you know, got systems in place, but because I was just trying to, and so, you know, got systems in place, but in because I was just trying to get everything going and it all happened so quickly I stopped sending out my newsletter. I stopped doing a lot of the things that helped me generate a lot of those leads. And so now here I am in December and I realized neither of my newsletter lists have grown this year like at all, cause I have just stopped putting yeah, I've just, I've just stopped. And so that's one of the big things for me for 2025 is I just need to be more visible again. I need to, and social media is just not the way to do it Like anymore for me. I'm, you know I'm not leaving social media or anything like that, but it is not the eyeball generator that it used to be.
Speaker 2:Oh God, no, and honestly, the amount of times that like people are like, wow, that looks cool, and they ask a question, that I'm like, wow, I have posted about this 57 million fucking times and this you're acting like this is the first time you've seen it? It probably is, and that's exactly it, and that happens more often than not, including people who I, and this still bamboozled me, honestly, because I guess, when you don't have a business account, when you don't make your account on Instagram professional, you do not have access to insights. But Melissa and I and every small business owner or even any person who calls themselves a digital creator, has access, and it blows my mind. They're like you can see that I saw your stories. I'm like, yes, I have told you this for a decade. I can see who has seen my stories, and it blows my mind when I know for a fact you have seen quote everything and yet you're asking this question like you've just seen it for the first time.
Speaker 1:But that says a lot about how we interact with social media. Like we're just mindlessly scrolling it or watching it, but we're not processing it, no, and so I think you know, yeah, people are seeing your stuff, but they're not seeing your stuff.
Speaker 2:And that's exactly it, so like it needs to be. I mean, I use LinkedIn a lot more deliberately. I've been failing at that a little bit, but that's, I think, for me. I set a goal for using LinkedIn more strategically a couple of years ago and I again. It was a planting, a seed.
Speaker 2:I did it, it yielded, and then I forgot to go back and do it all again, and so a lot of my goals are actually like and so it's funny, we say we're trying, but some of them I'm like no, I need to go back and do that again because that was actually worth it. And then, yeah, there's a couple of things, but I think I just need to shake things up. I think that's the big thing for me for 2025 is really to shake things up and honestly, it's funny I started that sentence that way but to be a little bit more honest with myself. I think a lot of this 2024 year, I was conning myself into thinking I was doing more than I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah and uh, yeah and I mean, I know it's okay, I'm fine, okay but it's fine to not do as much and I think you had an incredibly intense couple of years leading up to your exhibition and you, you know it's that whole wave energy. You needed to ride the wave in and just sit on the beach for a little bit, totally. And I think it's the same with grief. You do all this, you know.
Speaker 1:Grief forces you to sit for or, um, you know, just process things differently or not process them, or whatever the case may be, and I think yeah um, yeah, and I think you're right. I was the whole conning yourself like I thought I was busy, I thought I was doing stuff, and it wasn't until something came along that shook things up. I was like I wasn't doing. I think you're right. I was the whole conning yourself Like I thought I was busy, I thought I was doing stuff, and it wasn't until something came along that shook things up, I was like I wasn't doing anything Correct, exactly.
Speaker 2:And it's funny because, you know, when I look and think I'm like, yeah, I've created stuff, and I'm like, wow, I made and sold one painting. You know yay me, but still, uh, you know yay me, but still like it was more than zero. And that's exactly it. It's not zero, uh, and so I have to remind myself of that, uh. At the same time, you know, I, I think I felt like I was doing more and even, yeah, I feel I think I felt like I was doing more, and until I actually sat back and started looking at it and took like a real hard look, yeah, I was really glass half fulling it, yeah, what.
Speaker 1:What are you thinking you might like to do in 2025? Is there anything you want that you can share with us, or would like to share with us, or?
Speaker 2:I think for sure the murals like really stepping up the mural game is a big one. Um, I have been doing some logo design projects and I would love to. There's a lot of really interesting things. I think it's maybe being back in that sort of business world and it's not so much logo design, interestingly, because I find that, depending on the client, tricky.
Speaker 1:I don't do branding anymore and I'm a graphic designer. Yeah, exactly, I don't do branding anymore.
Speaker 2:And I'm a graphic designer. Yeah, exactly, I don't do branding, but you know, I see so much opportunity for creative practice in business, and so I have been approached for some really interesting things to do with Shart for 2025. And that has tickled my brain, uh, in what is also an opportunity to sort of expand the to, to blow my sharts out of the water. Uh, because that, the joy that shart brings the uh, we'll call it art therapy nature of it is something that has really tickled my brain and why it has always kept kept ongoing for me, and even recently, the last chart, which was Saturday December 7th. When we did it, I had multiple people and I did it.
Speaker 2:So the exercise was a breathing exercise, alternating between our dominant hand and our non-dominant hand, quite literally drawing a Christmas tree, but with every breath in and every breath out, you do sort of a line of the Christmas tree and you can sort of.
Speaker 2:If you're looking on YouTube right now, you can see the, the video, the way my hands are moving. But it's a very elementary Christmas tree, nothing deep or meaningful about it, no artistic skills or talent required, and it was just a reminder. And it was a reminder that I needed to give myself, which was to just take deep breaths and be present in the moment and enjoy the process. And I had multiple people send me text messages and DMs after saying I was having a shit morning and I logged on Instagram and there you were and I did this and like 20 minutes later, I feel right with the world. Thank you so much, and that I don't care that it was only 20 odd people who were on that session and that three of them took the time to reach out. That was the greatest gift that I could have received was hearing that feedback and that I want those gold stars. That's what I want for 2025.
Speaker 2:It's not me, and so it's not about me and the gold stars, what it is and I joke, but the gift of giving that and being that person through art and through just being real has something that has really tickled me this year and has sustained me. Being able to do chart has sustained me, and that connection in the community and I would like, and so sorry, to tie that back together. Doing branding exercises and brand strategy and understanding that teams of people and I understand this from where I work, teams of people are stressed, underpaid, overworked. They need to feel connection with community, they need reminders that they're special and important and meaningful and that their contributions are valued, and taking time to do something creative, whether the result is awesome or shitty. Hence shart is a great opportunity to bring that in, and so I would like to do more.
Speaker 2:We'll call it corporate art, so both corporate branding, so murals in offices to liven up teams and bring happiness and joy and color to spaces and places where people spend nine to five, but also through workshops and seminars. That's something that I would like to do more of and that was only tickled, interestingly, because somebody who was a member of the Shark community reached out to me with a really interesting proposal and I won't talk about it because I haven't signed anything yet. It's still in discussions, but there could be like a whole exciting opportunity for Shark that just brings it to more people, and I would love. I just, I think that's a yeah, I just want to Sharch all over the world.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I think you'd be so good at that too. I think, that totally fits just all your, your whole skill set that you have and the type of person you are. So that's, that's really cool yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's. It's really cool. Yeah, yeah, so that's it. But that and so, so for me, that's shaking things up. That's for 2025, shaking things out, finding a new horse, revisiting some perhaps old goals that worked well, and then ditching things that didn't, and then really and really planting seeds. I think that's a big one, to use that language. That's a big one for me for 2025 is to I still want to ride through the world as a rhinestone cowboy who declares herself an artist, and I can't ride that horse if I don't at least try some new things this year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's part of being a creative is you have to be willing to try new things. That's the, that's what creating is.
Speaker 2:You're creating correct, exactly and like once I don't. I am not an assembly line, and so that's. I think the big thing is that I started becoming a little assembly line-ish. Not that I created the same thing over and over again, but I felt a little stagnant and that's yeah, rode the same horse too long. That was the. So this year we're we're getting a new horse and we're bedazzling the saddle.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, yeah for 2025,. I think one of the decisions I made in 2024 was to become rightly or wrongly was to just avoid anything negative on my Instagram. I just stopped talking about politics.
Speaker 1:The news all that stuff, which is something I've always been fairly vocal about, and I just decided I really just wanted my Instagram to become a place that would be joyful to people. It was a very conscious decision. It doesn't mean I'm not engaged in the world, it's just I've just chosen not to use that as my venue to be engaged with the world. Yeah, yeah, and so that is something I really want to focus on for 2025 is just frightening people's day.
Speaker 1:Like honestly, when I go back to how everything started with my illustration business, it was with this little red-haired stick character, miss doodle, who people just fell in love with. And the reason they fell in love with was not because she was great art, she's not, she's a, she's a stick figure, as I as I say all the time. But she's perfect.
Speaker 1:She is perfect. And it's so funny how, um, over the of, I don't know I've been drawing her. It's probably about 10 years now that I've been drawing her, at least, yep and it is so funny how emotionally attached I have become to this little figure. She is a person to me, totally yes, with a full personality and a soul and everything. Totally yes.
Speaker 2:Just like Casey and Finnegan. Yes.
Speaker 1:And I don't. I haven't been drawing her as much because I've just been focusing on other types of artwork and stuff and, let's be honest, I've been trying to create things that are a little more commercial. Because I got to sell to make money Yep, totally, I hear you. Because I got to sell to make money yeah totally.
Speaker 1:I hear you, yeah, but the reason I went down the road of starting an illustration business was because of Miss Doodle and how she made people feel. Everybody used to message me and say I love seeing her. She brightens my day Totally. I feel, like the state that the world is in right now, that we need those little snippets. You know, you see a lot of stuff on social media. I don't know how people can talk about these things that don't matter when there's all this stuff going on in the world. That is really, really heavy.
Speaker 1:And you know I'm trying to figure out how to word this without sounding obnoxious.
Speaker 2:I understand where you're going. Yes, it's.
Speaker 1:If you look back in not far back in history, but fairly recent history, so like let's take World War II as an example, or the Great Depression the Great Depression saw this outpouring of the movie industry. The movie industry took off during the Great Depression. It was like one of the golden ages of Hollywood. It was like one of the golden ages of Hollywood and the reason was it was an escape mechanism for people who were miserable. It was a dime to go see a movie and people could somehow manage to find that dime. And a dime sounds like pennies to us today, but you know, a dime was a lot of money back then. You could go get a piece of pie in a diner for 40 cents with a coffee, right, so, but that is. It was out of despair that this industry became huge.
Speaker 1:And then you move on to World War II and again the movie industry had another boom because it was a way for people to just for a moment, for an hour and a half, escape the misery that was going on in the world, and it was an escape mechanism. Then we had the pandemic. And where did everyone flock? To Netflix, youtube, everywhere these people where there was just stuff to take your mind off it, and I think that, while it is very important for us to be aware of what's going on out in the world, because we're citizens of this planet and you know I do feel very strongly that we need to be aware and we need to fight the things that we think are wrong, and we need to do all that.
Speaker 1:But at the same time, we need to take breaks.
Speaker 2:We need to have moments of joy.
Speaker 1:We need to have moments of things that we can celebrate or that pick us up, because fighting the fight is exhausting, yes, mentally, physically, and it's just. It's a lot. And I also find it really interesting the way boomers get kind of bashed around and if you look back in history to the people who were raising the boomers, these were the people who went through the depression and the world war.
Speaker 1:These are veterans who came home with no mental health support, who had seen atrocious things and they, just they, did the best they could, right With what they were dealing with, and this is why, when you see things that are going on in other war-torn areas across the globe, we're just creating more generations of people who are going to be raising kids who have experienced tremendous trauma and now we're trying to raise children right.
Speaker 1:Yes, that is going to impact those children. It's yeah. There's just no way around it. Um, yeah, so it's it. I I do think for us as creatives, where I'm going with this is for us as creatives, there is absolutely a place for us to bring joy and to give people a moment to have that just little boost that they might need. And I think there's also ever been for us to have a place in the world and to remind people that there is beauty out there and it's worth fighting for.
Speaker 1:It's worth you know, like we can do both, and so that is one of the things I really do want to focus on for the coming year is just because I do think the coming year is going to be very challenging globally for so many reasons, and I think there is going to be a need for people to just have those little moments that pick them up and, yeah, just remind them that there's good things out there, and those good things are worth fighting for so totally, and I think, too, I'm totally with you and that's and that that's why Shart, for me, is a big cause.
Speaker 2:It's the driver is, it's that moment of respite, but also a reminder of the connection of community. Particularly and and this is what I love about Shart is that we have people quite literally tune in from all over the globe. I have people who tune in regularly from Germany and Australia and then all over Canada and like that is crazy to me and they've never met each other, but they follow each other on Instagram and love each other through art and that's a beautiful thing. And so bringing people together for just a moment of joy through a creative venue, whether it's a simple doodle or a breathing exercise, I think, I think that that's like. Those are momentous, those are not little, those are not little things.
Speaker 1:It's giving people strength to Totally, to keep going with whatever it is that they are challenged with at this particular moment in time. And I just I don't let anybody make you feel like now is not the time to make art, or now is not the time to celebrate these little things. It is always the time to.
Speaker 2:And the best music, like the best music and the best art comes out of the toughest, like that's pressure makes diamonds. That's what happens, and so I think this is the time, and if you're stressed about something and that's, you know, even my exhibition like those are opportunities to use your creativity as therapy for yourself as a creative. So, like express yourself and you'll find community around, whatever it is that you're trying, like, yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I'm totally with you I'm just I'm gonna hold it up.
Speaker 1:I don't. You won't be able to see it if you're just listening, but if you're on youtube, you'll be able to see her. Um, this has been. This was made by a ukrainian artist that I have followed for years.
Speaker 1:She's like Miss Doodle she is, but she's Miss Sunshine, yes, isn't she? Freaking, adorable, adorable. Anyway, this particular artist we've been following each other on Instagram for years, pre-conflict. She lost her husband in the war in Ukraine. He was killed, and she has a young daughter and a dog and she's still creating amazing art. She's figuring it out, you know, it's so.
Speaker 1:You see these artists who are being bombed and losing family members and things, and they are still finding a way to create um, and I think yeah, because it's part of us, it's part of who we are, but at the same.
Speaker 1:I think it is therapy for us to do that when we've suffered great loss, and yeah, anyway. So that's my little sunshine girl and I have her on my desk, so she's actually meant to be a pendant. This woman makes big, chunky jewelry and the necklace feeds through these, but I just have her at my desk and I just like to look at her. Every day, when it's sunny, which it isn't very often right now, I have her on the windowsill, so the light goes through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it comes through. Exactly. I was thinking it's like a little piece of stained glass. That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's definitely something that is really my focus for this year and this coming year. And yeah, just like I said, getting in front of more people and I haven't figured that one out yet, because I keep defaulting to social media and it's just not working. So I have to Yep.
Speaker 2:I'm with you.
Speaker 1:What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I don't know just yet.
Speaker 1:I know, Currently I don't know just yet.
Speaker 2:I know Currently I've decided on a variety. I've made a list of ridiculous options. So one is literally making myself a sandwich board and just walking around. I'm like, all right, what are the stupid things? And I don't mean to say stupid, because nothing's stupid, goofy.
Speaker 1:Maybe goofy or silly Goofy, exactly.
Speaker 2:And so it's like, nope, not doing that one, not doing that one. But then it's like, well, what? Why does my mind go to those goofy things? And what is it that is actually like viable about it? I think that's, and so I'm trying to start from a place of fun, because otherwise I find it a little stressful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely, I think I actually, I think about your cousin actually alexandra, we had her on the show. Yes, yes andrew newbold and uh, how she just goes to clubs and bars and stuff and draw us and people come up to her and ask her questions and the bands I know sometimes ask her, you know, and I'm just like she's just going where she loves to go and she's totally well, she's there and I'm like that's really cool.
Speaker 2:It's a great way to honestly, I was at a conference that I spoke at a couple weeks ago. One of the girls in the audience and it was a conference for creative so it was a creative symposium, was the name of it anyway and one of the girls in the audience came up to me and said hey, do you want to see? Here's my doodle of your presentation. And literally she had a two-page spread and she'd done a little doodle of me and she had little quotables like different things, and it was like all kind of it was kind of like one of those whiteboard designs.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it was so fantastic and I was like, oh my God, I took, of course, I took a picture of it, I shared it on my social media, like it was absolutely, and it was such a like what a creative way to capture the conversation. Like it was an hour and a half long keynote that I delivered, so like what a cool way for her to capture all the information. But then what a neat interaction opportunity to just come up, just as you said in terms of what Alex does, sitting in bars, and just like drawing things and having people like you. Just I think it's a simple way to just put yourself out there and how can you? Yeah, I think that's a brilliant example, because that's such a fun way to shake things up.
Speaker 1:I've done it at my last two markets. I did a pop-up in September and I did a market in the spring, and part of the reason I did draw at those markets wasn't so much to strike up conversations, as it was because people didn't think the artwork on the things I sold was mine, and this is a very common thing that I'm hearing from so many creatives who have been very active at markets this year is just the frustration level at people thinking their work is not theirs or that they purchased the artwork.
Speaker 1:So this was my solution I'm just going to sit there and draw and then they can see I'm an artist, and the number of people who have stopped, who might've gone right past my booth but have stopped to say, oh, do you actually draw this? Or or how do you do that? Because I usually do it on my iPad, cause I'm in a, I'm at a market and it's just easier. I have my iPad anyway. Yeah, totally yeah. Um, and so they have so many questions how do you get the artwork off your iPad, like, how do you turn it into a card, like you know, super curious, and they want to see the whole process, and that has been a really interesting way to spark conversations.
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I do think there's a place for that. People are very curious, particularly if they don't view themselves as creative as to how other people create, Especially when they can see it. Yes, when they just see the finished item on Instagram, they don't think twice about how it was created. But when they actually see a person in the process, they're like oh, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, that's my favorite part of doing a mural project is having people interrupt me, and they're always. You can see the hesitation because they're quite literally interrupting me.
Speaker 2:They can tell you're working, but at the same time, yeah, oh exactly At the same time, like it makes me so happy to turn around and stand there with my paintbrush drying and explain the whole process because people are fascinated by it, and then it's a memorable opportunity to speak about your artwork. It's also a great way to show your passion for it and I think that's what particularly just to go back to what we were saying earlier on the sort of sharing joy as a creative, when people see what you do and see that you actually love what you do, I think that that is a huge like. The appreciation they have, I think, is even deeper Because you're not just doing it for the dollar, you're doing it because there's a deep and like when you talk about your process and you talk about how you do things, it could be same same for a lot of people. It could also be incredibly unique to you. Regardless a person, if they've asked the question, they want to hear the answer and I think that's such a great opportunity for connection.
Speaker 1:It's a great way for people to understand that this is a craft yeah, that this is, that it takes skill, that it takes thought, that there is yeah, because people don't necessarily appreciate that.
Speaker 1:But when they actually see the process and they talk to you and they understand what goes into it and they start to realize it's not just drawing something on a piece of paper and suddenly magically it turns into something else you know, or they start to understand that there's a lot more to it and it's, it's really cool to see the yes, the understanding and come into their eyes as they are like totally, and there's actually a lot of work that goes into this And's it's, it's cool.
Speaker 1:So yeah yeah, I think that's a great one. The other thing I started to do and I've been having so much fun with it a friend actually asked me if I would consider doing a calendar for 2025 and I had cool thought about it, but I have always done. You can kind of see them in the background. It's blurred, but they're up there. I did do a couple of these little doodles eons ago for certain months of the year, and it was just little things for the month, and then I started thinking about doing one for Advent, just because it's 24 days, right, yeah and so I did.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna see if I can here. So this is my sketchbook. This is a sketchbook that I have been very precious about. There is only one other, and this is from years ago. Wow, and then the rest of the book is empty. I didn't want to mess the sketchbook up. It's a very nice, rather expensive sketchbook and I just wanted everything in it to be perfect.
Speaker 2:It's such a dumb thing.
Speaker 1:And I know there are so many other illustrators and artists out there going yes, yes, I do the same thing. I feel very seen right now actually.
Speaker 1:We have these precious sketchbooks where we just, oh, I know, right now, actually, we have these precious sketchbooks where we just uh, I know. So anyway, I was like I have to start using this because I can't go out and buy another. You know, I can't keep buying sketchbooks that I never fill correct. So I thought you know what? What if I just did a little teeny tiny doodle every day for advent and I wrote out a list?
Speaker 1:here's my list, it's just on here you can't see it and I came up with a something for every day, and so that's what I do, and now you can, now that you can actually see the sketchbook, you can see like these are tiny, yep, tiny.
Speaker 1:I'm using a zoom filter so it's hard to, I know, I see really, really tiny, because the idea is to get all 24 on one page and I was thinking as I did it, as I started working on it, that that could be a calendar page, but I don't. I don't know if it will be or not, but it has been so fun to do, they are the perfect size, and I decided to do them with watercolor.
Speaker 2:I don't know why, because I don't know anything about watercolor and but that's it make probably makes it even more fun because it's so out of your comfort zone.
Speaker 1:Yeah I'm very impatient. You can't be impatient with watercolor like I'm just I'm not good at that's.
Speaker 2:I've been experimenting with watercolor and literally it's like oh my god, like I'm there's, I'm in acrylics and I fucking blow dry things like that's how quickly I'm like dry faster right and it's like if you rush it you ruin it.
Speaker 1:It's just the first few were just a mess, because I just no kidding so impatient to add the next color in and then just yes, and then I just create puddles.
Speaker 2:That's what I create pages with puddles on them.
Speaker 1:That's what my watercolors look like so, um, I am getting more patient and um, but it has been, and I also changed it from doing it in the evening to it being the first thing that I do in the morning. Oh, fun, as kind of like just a nice little way to create to start and they literally take me 10 minutes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 1:I got to wait for the paint to dry. That's why it takes 10 minutes. It was just the doodle sketch. It would take like a minute.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah Right, that's perfect though, so that's been really fun, yeah, and I think I just want to do more things like that. Just remind myself, and because this is a sketchbook project, it was never meant to be anything more than a page in my sketchbook for me, anything more than more a page in my sketchbook for me, and I think I need to do more of that type of work where it is not about, like you said, you've been doing stuff this year that you haven't been sharing yeah and I think I just need to do more of that where, yeah, I'll share it.
Speaker 1:If it, if yeah, if it looks totally, but it's yep, it's. I shouldn't.
Speaker 2:And you're not making it for anybody. No, I am making it for me.
Speaker 1:And if I don't share it, it's not a big deal. Yeah, that's just something that I am doing for myself and I started thinking about it and I'm like you know I could probably do that for 365 days.
Speaker 2:I'm not committing to it because I don't want to put pressure on myself Like it's not a 365 day project.
Speaker 1:No it's just going to be like. If I can open my sketchbook for 10 minutes every morning most days, I think that that is a good way for me to start the day, so I definitely want to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah Cool.
Speaker 1:So other things that have kind of been weird. Like you know, I want to do more SEO work this year, but I don't know what SEO work looks like in 2025. Like things have changed so dramatically in the last two years, so again I could go back and do all those things that I used to do that I knew worked and that I've kind of neglected.
Speaker 2:But I don't think those work anymore. I don't think they work anymore. No kind of neglected.
Speaker 1:I don't think those work anymore and you know figuring out where the place for AI in my business is, and because I do think there is a place for it. I think there's a place for it for all of us.
Speaker 2:I've been using it quite interestingly for a lot of projects, yeah there's lots of ways you can use it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't think there's a place for it in my creative process like the actual process of creating for me at this time. That is not what I want. It's interesting. I do a lot of writing for a living. I probably make most of my revenue from writing and I worry every day that I'm going to lose that to AI. But this has been my busiest year and I worry every day that I'm going to lose that to AI.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, but this has been my busiest year and frankly, I've had so many people come to me because I don't write with AI and because they find it very generic sounding and they want somebody who has a voice. Yeah, and so I think there will be a place for me, whether it's writing everything from scratch always, maybe not, but there will be a place for me to refine work, writing everything from scratch always maybe not, but there will be a place for me to refine work that's created for sure through so yeah, I think there's a.
Speaker 1:I think it's going to be an interesting year, technology wise, for a lot of us. Um yeah, so um yeah. I think the only other big question mark I have for next year is just the state of business in this country oh, small business in this country, and I know a lot of people are very nervous about the tariff situation which will impact all of us if you sell on.
Speaker 2:Etsy and things like that, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:If you sell in your own store, because it's not us that pays the tariff, it's your customer that pays the tariff, so it's not us that needs to worry about implementing it. It's your customer has to worry about paying it. So, yep, and I am going to be doing a Patreon episode for December on that, to talk about that. So for those of you who follow us on Patreon or on our Buzzsprout premium subscriber network, you will get that episode, this before the end of the year. Well, actually, it's probably already out if you're listening to this, because this episode is going to air on December 30th. It is not December 30th. We're recording it.
Speaker 1:So if you would like to hear that, you can sign up for our Patreon over. It's just Patreon forward slash and she looked up and yes, I just want to say first of all, before we wrap up, do you have anything else you want to share or are you good? No, I mean, I think that I would like to maybe get on a soapbox for a millisecond and say to everybody else who's listening, I've done it twice today so why not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the opportunity. I think one of the things that Melissa and I yeah, I think the opportunity. I think one of the things that Melissa and I well, we consistently agree on a lot of different things, but I think one of the things particularly as we head into 2025, is to never forget that you need to make art that makes you happy, and that I think sharing that joy is something we can all step up our game for in 2025, because I think that that's what the world needs, and so if we could all take that as a personal challenge, I, I think, I think that would be a good thing yeah, I 100% agree.
Speaker 1:um, I think threads is a very interesting social media platform I really liked it at first. I've kind of avoided it now because I find it a very negative place.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Particularly for creatives. Yes, it feels like it's a venting platform for creatives.
Speaker 2:No, kidding yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't need that energy.
Speaker 2:No, right now. No, yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I am definitely looking. I want to see what people are creating. I want to see your work. I want to see what you put out there. Send it to me if you need to Like, if you feel like it's not getting, send it to me. Send me a DM and say this is what I've been working on. I thought you might like to see it because I would like to see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my favorite DMs are look at my shirt. Those are my favorite DMs.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. One of my absolute favorite ones is a follower who I can't remember how it came about. We know each other in real life as well and she had mentioned that her daughter was really into learning to draw and stuff and I sent her daughter a bunch of my stickers like seconds that I had that hadn't cut quite perfectly, and I sent her a bunch. This was quite a while ago, Anyway, she sent me for a while. She was sending me some of her. Every time her daughter created something she would send me a picture of it and I loved it and I haven't seen anything in quite a while I hope she's still drawing and stuff, but it was one of my favorite things to get.
Speaker 1:It was like um, so yeah, if you, if you, yeah, send me your artwork Totally. Oh I love it for sure. Yes, right, yeah, um, yeah. So, uh, yes, bring more joy in 2025, because I think we're going to be dealing with a lot of hard things in 2025. So if you can bring more joy to the table for yourself or for others, or just share it, I think there's a place for you and there's other places to share.
Speaker 1:Besides, I created a bunch of bookmarks this year which I kind of love, and I've decided I'm just going to stick them into library books when I return the books to the library. That's amazing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Do it.
Speaker 1:I did start to wonder if, like they shake the books out, you know when they, before they put them back on the shelf.
Speaker 2:I don't think they do.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't, I don't know if they do, but one thing I have noticed is on hardbacks you know they cover them with that plastic wrap at the library and I have taken out books very often that have the person's library receipt with the due date yes, shoved in the side I love finding those, because I am a mystery reader and usually Me too I find new mystery authors. It's like that person really they liked this book and they read these other ones. I'm gonna try these other ones anyway.
Speaker 1:So I thought about shoving the bookmarks in that slot, because I don't think I fall out of there. So anyway, I'm just gonna do that, just you know totally I like the bookmarks, so these are readers they obviously.
Speaker 2:Yes, use bookmarks yeah, yeah, yeah, you could even do it. You could even do it in, like your favorite books, like go into a bookstore and put them into books that people are going to actually buy and take home you could.
Speaker 1:I think they're far less likely to get shaken. I don't know if you'd get in trouble or not. I mean, I guess, if somebody spotted you.
Speaker 2:I feel like they're far less likely to get shaken in a bookstore.
Speaker 1:Exactly. They don't pick them up when you go to the checkout and shake them out, right? No, exactly A librarian cares.
Speaker 2:A Chapters employee could give two shits.
Speaker 1:No, I just went and I apologize profusely if you're a Chapters employee, but this is the generalization.
Speaker 2:I'm going to put one on a different level when it comes for love of books.
Speaker 1:I went to Chapters last week and bought a couple books and nobody shook them out. No Same with the magazine. Nobody shook that out. So, yeah, you probably could, but I feel like the library is like my kindred spirit. People.
Speaker 2:Oh, totally yeah, and that's a good place to love bomb things. They're there reading for themselves, right? As opposed to buying gifts for them.
Speaker 1:Yes, anyway, yeah. So maybe that's just a. I'm doing it to spread joy, but, who knows, it could plant a seed for my business as well at the same. Yeah, the same time. Yeah, so I think we'll probably wrap up here.
Speaker 1:Uh, before we wrap up, I do just want to thank all our patrons on both platforms who have supported the show this year. It is why the show keeps going. So, for all of you listening, those people are the reason that we're still here. So thank you so much to all of you and for the wonderful feedback and questions I get from you all. It makes me feel more connected to the people who are listening to the show. I also want to thank Valentina, my fantastic assistant, who has been managing a lot of my social media for the podcast this year, because I was just fed up with doing it and she is amazing and I love her to pieces. And and thanks to you, heather, for being here so much this year and always and these are my favorite episodes to record when we get to hang out together so, uh, look forward to having you back in the new year you bet and thanks to all of you who listen.
Speaker 1:Uh, I'm glad that we are in your. My doorbell just rang. I don't know if that picked up on my mic. Nope, I didn't hear that. It's 2025 calling anyway, um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So thank you to all of you and I hope you all have had a very happy holidays and I wish you a very creative 2025. Yes, all right, everyone. We will be back in a new year, in a couple of weeks, with a brand new episode, and we will talk to you all then. Thank you so much for joining us for the and she Looked Up Creative Hour. If you're looking for links or resources mentioned in this episode, you can find detailed show notes on our website at andshelookedupcom. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter for more business tips, profiles of inspiring Canadian creative women and so much more.
Speaker 1:If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the show via your podcast app of choice so you never miss an episode. Show via your podcast app of choice so you never miss an episode. We always love to hear from you, so we'd love it if you'd leave us a review through iTunes or Apple Podcasts. Drop us a note via our website at andshelookedupcom or come say hi on Instagram at andshelookedup. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.
