The And She Looked Up Podcast
Every other week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love. Your host, Melissa Hartfiel, left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, illustrator, writer, community co-founder and has owned and operated a multi-six figure a year creative content business. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
The And She Looked Up Podcast
EP158: Leaning Into Rest - and Why It's SO Important for Working Creatives
With the Season 5 finale, Melissa and Heather talk about rest and why it's so critical for self-employed creatives. What does rest look like (no it's not sleep - but that's critical too!)? It's not a "one size fits all" concept. It may be a two week vacation but what if a "leave the house" vacation isn't possible?
We dig deep into ways we can ensure rest is part of our creative cycle - whether you're an introvert, extrovert, parent, caregiver, managing multiple roles, financially strapped or somebody who needs movement or somebody who needs stillness. And we talk about how switching our mindset towards everyday chores we don't like can actually turn them into moments of restoration for our brains!
This is a great episode for creatives who...
- are tired or feeling burnt out
- know they need rest but don't know how to make it happen
- don't find typical "restful" activities particularly restorative
- are looking for ways to incorporate small moments of rest into each day
- need a longer break
- need permission to ask for rest when they need it (here's your permission!)
This episode is brought to you by our Premium Subscriber Community on Patreon and Buzzsprout
For a summary of this episode and all the links mentioned please visit:
Episode158: Leaning into Rest and Why it's so Important for Working Creatives
You can find Melissa at finelimedesigns.com, finelimeillustrations.com or on Instagram @finelimedesigns.
You can find Heather at heatherlynnetravis.com or on Instagram @heathertravis.
You can connect with the podcast on:
- Instagram at @andshelookedup
- YouTube
- Tik Tok at @AndSheLookedUp
For a list of all available episodes, please visit:
And She Looked Up Creative Hour Podcast
Each week The And She Looked Up Podcast sits down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. This podcast is for Canadian artists, makers and creators who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.
Your host, Melissa Hartfiel (@finelimedesigns), left a 20 year career in corporate retail and has been happily self-employed as a working creative since 2010. She's a graphic designer, writer and illustrator as well as the co-founder of a multi-six figure a year business in the digital content space. She resides just outside of Vancouver, BC.
This week's episode of the and she Looked Up podcast is brought to you by our premium subscriber community on Patreon and Buzzsprout. Their ongoing financial support of the show ensures I can continue to bring the podcast to you. Want to help out? Head over to patreoncom. Forward slash, and she looked up. That's patreon p-a-t-r-e-o-n dot com. Forward slash, and she looked up. That's Patreon P-A-T-R-E-O-Ncom. Forward slash, and she looked up. There you can join the community for free or you can choose to be a premium supporter for $4.50 a month, and that's in Canadian dollars. Paid supporters get access to a monthly exclusive podcast episode only available to premium subscribers. You can also click the support the show link in the episode notes on your podcast player to support us via Buzzsprout, where you will also get access to each month's exclusive premium supporter episode. I can't tell you how much I appreciate all our monthly supporters. They are the engine that keeps the podcast running and they're a pretty cool bunch too. And now let's get on with the show.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the and she Looked Up podcast. Each week we sit down with inspiring Canadian women who create for a living. We talk about their creative journeys and their best business tips, as well as the creative and business mindset issues all creative entrepreneurs struggle with. I'm your host, melissa Hartfield, and, after leaving a 20-year career in corporate retail, I've been happily self-employed for 12 years. I'm a graphic designer, an illustrator and a multi-six-figure-a-year entrepreneur in the digital content space. This podcast is for the artists, the makers and the creatives who want to find a way to make a living doing what they love.
Speaker 1:Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of the and she Looked Up podcast. As always, I am your host, melissa, and today's episode is the final episode of season five before we head out onto our summer hiatus that we do every year, and that means that Heather Travis is here today. Hello Heather, hello Melissa, how are you? I am good. How are you? I am good. How are you? I'm great, thank you. Good, we were just talking before we came on the air. How it feels like it's been ages since we talked, but it really I don't think it has been. No, yeah, time is just going by at a very fast rate. Yes, yes, to have some rest, but before we dive into that, we have a couple of housekeeping things to go through.
Speaker 1:So the first thing is, if you're new around here, we go on a hiatus every summer for June, july and August and just to take a bit of a break. And if you are a premium subscriber to the podcast, so on Patreon or Buzzsprout I will still be putting out your monthly premium episodes each month, so you'll still be getting a new episode in June, july and August. If you are not a premium subscriber but you would like to get those summer episodes, you can head over to patreoncom forward slash and she looked up and become a subscriber and you'll get access to those episodes as well. And you can just subscribe for the summer months. If you just want those summer episodes, you can subscribe for the summer months and then drop out at the end of August if you prefer. And if you become a premium subscriber you will get access to all the back issues, back episodes of the show.
Speaker 1:So I think there's over a year's worth of them now over there so you can go check those out. And if you're on Buzzsprout, you'll still get access to the premium episodes as well. So there is that. You can also head over to our website. I'll still be sending emails out through the summer If you're not subscribed to our website. I'll still be sending emails out through the summer If you're not subscribed to our newsletter, you can head over to andshulookedupcom and subscribe and you will get our freebie 25 non-salesy ways to email your newsletter list, specifically for creatives. And if you are not emailing your list, now's the time to get started, because I came across a really interesting stat.
Speaker 1:Um Heather, we were just talking about email before we came before we started recording, but I came across a stat I can't remember where it is, but people who hear from you regularly through Q1 and through and Q2 of the year via your email newsletter are far more likely and I can't remember the number, but it's a big number to purchase from you in Q4 when oh, wow, yeah. So I think that's a really good indication of how long it takes to warm people up yes, to purchase from you. So if you are not emailing your list but you have the holiday season on your brain already, which a lot of us probably do, now is the time that you probably want to get into that habit of sending them an email once a week or once every two weeks just to say hi, and so if you're looking for ways that you can do that, yeah, sign up for our newsletter and you'll get access to that whole list. And I think actually that list was based on a podcast episode that we did, so I believe I will find the episode number and put in the show notes, but you can also listen to the episode to get those 25 ways. It's a long episode, so just depends on how long you want to listen or whether you want to read. So, with that. I think that's all the housekeeping for this month.
Speaker 1:The other thing I would just love to say is we were discussing what season six will look like in September, and I would love to hear from any of you, whether you hit me up in on Instagram DMs or send me an email at anneshielookedup at gmailcom, or, however, I would love to hear from you your feedback on the show and what you would like to see more of, what you would like to see less of and what it is you enjoy about the show, so that, as we start to plan out season six, which we start doing in July, I mean, we go on hiatus, but we're still working on the show. But yeah, if you could drop us a note, we'd love to hear from you and maybe put some of your suggestions into action. It would be great to hear from you all, to hear from you all. So let's get on to today's topic, which, as I mentioned, is about embracing rest, and this was actually suggested to me by a former guest, panita Chitwal Varma, who has been on the show three times, I think we recorded with her.
Speaker 1:Her new book's out. Yes, I was just going to mention that If you've been listening to the show, you've heard Panita on a previous podcast. She helped me out when, after Lisa left, she came on and guest hosted for a few episodes and we did an episode with Heather as well where we talked about how to make your business more environmentally sustainable. And she has a brand new book that has just come out. It's called Good Food, healthy Planet, and it is a cookbook, but it is so much more than a cookbook. It is-.
Speaker 2:Like a lifestyle guide.
Speaker 1:It is. It is packed with ways that you can eat better, both for yourself and for the planet, and more ways to eat more sustainably, and she's got so much info in there. It's packed with how to revamp your pantry, and all of it is very small changes that are very easy to make. So it's not like to eat better for the planet. We have to radically change what we're doing. She's broken it down into small ways that we can make changes that add up to big change, and it's a great book if you want to check it out. But this episode was actually her idea and she suggested it, and the moment she sent it to me, it resonated with me immediately and I think, heather, when I suggested it to you, you also had quite a reaction to it. So I felt like, yeah, this is probably a good episode to end the season on. Perfect. Yes, so let's talk about rest.
Speaker 1:So, heather, you wrapped up a big solo exhibition at the end of December. It was an exhibition that ran from September through December, so it was almost four full months, and that was just the finishing energy of the project. This is the project that you were working on for years and, yeah, let's talk about what happened when you wrapped it all up. Your exhibition ended on December 31st, so it was like the end of the year and the end of the exhibition and all of a sudden you were done. So there's lots of ways we could talk about how you felt about the end of the exhibition, but how did you feel from an energy?
Speaker 2:perspective. You know it was really interesting because you know I had to have the art finished by May. The previous May I moved everything in but I still was finishing, like framing and doing so much stuff for the exhibition that even though the creation process was technically done, it wasn't really done until I handed everything in, so to speak. And then, even when I did hand everything in, I was then working at the contract job that I took, and so part of that was an almost immediate forced rest or forced break from my existing schedule, which was work from home, put on paint-covered jeans and a Rolling Stones t-shirt, as I am today, and which was work from home, put on paint-covered jeans and a Rolling Stones t-shirt, as I am today, and then just work from home, freelance work, artwork, whatever. And so that was an immediate break. But then, when the exhibition wrapped up at the end of December, we had like a Christmas break and then we picked up the artwork.
Speaker 2:My husband helped me and it was like the first week of January picking everything up and as we discussed, nothing, no physical artwork sold. I sold a boatload of prints but I didn't sell any of the artwork, so I had to bring it all home and put it in the studio and that, honestly, was a little and that, honestly, was a little um, not deflating, because I'm incredibly proud of what I did and I know the artwork was well received and I have since sold quite a number of pieces. However, bringing it all back in here was not something I intended on, and so the forced rest of work and the kind of unwillingness to come into my studio for just a little bit. Plus, it was the dead of winter, I use that as a good excuse, but it was kind of nice to just nest and not not be in the studio.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so was it the fact that all the artwork was back in the studio that made you not want to go in there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, because it was seeing the big pile and being like, wow, look at what I did, still very proud of myself, but like, what do I do now? But what do I do now? Right, I have lots of ideas and I have been making notes, like I think that's the beauty of what I've allowed myself, and this is where I did have to have a conversation with myself, particularly as this is a really big space in our house and you know we don't have a huge house. This takes up a lot of space. If I am not using this productively, there's lots of other things we could do with this room. That would be super fun for both of us. And so I had to say to myself if you're not going to do this, like if you're not going to move on to another project, if you're not ready for that which is totally okay you can noodle it, you can brainstorm things, but you need to continue to do something creative. You can't just like close the room up and put a sheet over it. And so one of the things that I really challenged myself was I looked back on the exhibition process and actually thought to myself what was it about that that I really relished and the one thing that I I mean I loved the whole process, but I loved that I gave myself the opportunity to experiment and so, because of the grant, I was able to purchase different paints, different products. I afforded myself the time to kind of fuck around within that process and that was really awesome. And so why not give that to myself again, with no direction, just the opportunity to play, and so kind of taking a lesson from myself and shart honestly play, and so kind of taking a lesson from myself and shart honestly like just let a little shart out and have and have fun. And it's been really gratifying, like I have. I have actually sold a couple of commissions that have been the result of sort of experimental play. The person who commissioned something just said I want you to have fun. And I was like, okay, I'm going to have some fun. And I did, and it was awesome, and they purchased it, which is delightful, and so my play has yielded artistic results.
Speaker 2:I've also you know there's canvases turned around behind me that are thinking about what they've done, because they that's the way I always like to think about it. You think about it, you sit in the corner, you sit in the corner and, exactly, you think about what you've done and then we'll come back and we'll play again later when you behave, and so, whether that's you know wasn't in the mood, the mood whatever, and I'm okay with that, it still does bother me that there are paintings in here that are unsold. There are quite a number of them, so I have talked about this many times before. I have a habit of painting over old paintings. If I don't feel for it anymore old paintings, if I don't feel for it anymore, if it just hasn't sold in a bunch of time and I need that canvas size and I'm sort of indifferent I'll paint over it. I don't want to diminish the art in any way by saying that, but at the same time, like reduce, reuse, recycle if it's not selling, I don don't know, and so I am having that conversation with myself right now. Are there things that I want to? But I'm not going to force that. I'm still.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking of having another studio sale. That's something that the rest has allowed me to do is that I had a studio open house and sale, and so I just kind of hung around the studio for the day and let people know email, email subscribers, instagram people and I did put a big, big old sign out in front of my house and so that was breaking from tradition, that was breaking from. I think that's part of rest for me is experimentation and play and doing different things at the same time. Like there's a bench behind me, a girlfriend commissioned me, actually is commissioning me to redo, and it's been sitting there since like January.
Speaker 2:Uh, I just have not in the mood every time I go to tackle it. I'm like me. Um, she knows that totally cool whenever she sees me is when she sees me. It's no big deal. Uh, she's getting the friends, family discount anyway, so it's not like it's a I just you know what I mean Like supplies are being paid for, kind of thing, so whatever. But that, to me, is what rest allows, is the opportunity to let creativity take a lead as opposed to the business, and I think right now, because I have the job, I have the financial luxury of not forcing the business side as much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you mentioned several very interesting things in there that we could go follow little threads that we could follow. I think you mentioned, first of all, one of the first things you said is that the contract position you took was forced rest, and I thought that was an interesting way to refer to it because I mean you, you took the contract job and correct me if I'm wrong here but it was basically, you know, you'd spent 18 months painting um with no real revenue coming in, and the contract job was meant to help fill up the coffers and so you took it, I guess I don't want to say out of necessity, but there was a practical reason for it, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Adulting.
Speaker 1:You being a grownup, exactly, we have to do that sometimes. When you went into that situation, did it feel restful to you to like do something that is completely different and in some ways very structured, because you went back into you're working for a nonprofit? I believe right, that's right, yeah. So I don't want to use the word corporate environment, but it's a structured environment, a structured business.
Speaker 2:It is a structured environment, like it's a it's a nine to five office. We take lunch and sit around a boardroom table and it very much is like you know there's the office gym and like it's Jim and Pam and Steve Carell and like we have the whole cast of characters honestly, truly beautiful humans. I think that's one of the rare things that I have found in this opportunity just to dwell on workplace, particularly for such a noble and interesting cause where I'm learning but also using all of my skills. Like I and you talk about it on the podcast.
Speaker 2:There is so much creativity in writing. There is so much creativity in graphic design and creating, in creating materials and websites and advertising and different promotional, like all of the things that I do at work. Like one of the things that I would did this morning was worked on a mini movie with a script and I recorded audio that's going to be played in front of a local movie and that's in promotion for the business and for our community, and so I am being creative in such a different but really regular way, which is very contrasting and I think, yeah, so I've been flexing creative bones, but I just haven't been doing it covered in in paint yeah, I think sometimes it's also nice.
Speaker 1:I think the the act of doing something that uses a completely different part of your brain or uses your brain in a different way, yeah, can be very, can be restful, whether it's yes, and I think when you go to work for someone else, they're also making all the decisions. Like you. You are. You're told what your day is going to be like. Essentially yes, Maybe not, maybe you're not that directed, but you know somebody else is deciding what is important for you to do, and sometimes there's something very nice about that. It's just like it's like.
Speaker 1:I think the thing that I can relate it to, that we can probably all relate to, is the idea of having to come up with something for dinner every single fricking night. Right, and sometimes it's just nice for somebody else to say this is what we're having for dinner and you don't have to think about it. Like it's just totally like. Yeah, just want a break from figuring out what we're having for dinner and you don't have to think about it. Like it's just totally like. Yeah, just want a break from figuring out what we're getting Totally.
Speaker 2:And that's the funny thing, and I think exactly and honestly, that's exactly to continue that exact analogy. Shart, lots of people give that feedback that I, you've just given me permission to release something and given me, I just needed the idea. You gave it to me and now I can execute, and and the creativity that I get at work. Quite literally, heather, we need a brochure made. Okay, like I'm, I'm literally like a puppy with bright eyes, I'm like perfect, I'll pop into Canva and make us the brochure that's delightful.
Speaker 1:They're telling you they need a brochure, but at the same time, they're saying this is what the brochure is for. This is what the goal of the brochure is for this is what we need people to.
Speaker 2:This is what they need. It's so clear.
Speaker 1:Like, you just get to make it look pretty and as long as it hits all the points, right, yes, yes, it's just like no, no, you need to put some. You need to put some boundaries in Correct.
Speaker 2:And it's so funny because one of the things that when I started, even in terms of boundaries and I mean we talk about brand, but one of the things was setting boundaries in terms of like, making brand structure so that I actually gave myself my own boxes and said you didn't have this in place, you need this in place. Here's what it is. And now I'm going to go forward and and like made myself the perfect little sandbox to execute within creatively and yeah, and it's. It was very different and I like I still come to the studio every. I come up into my studio now every weekend and noodle around, whether it's for shart or just to play on a canvas, like I still have fun. But I've also been having fun doing other things spray painting, furniture, doing different activities.
Speaker 2:I'm you know, I cleaned up my pantry last weekend. It was really I don't know Like there's different things that just give me joy and I'm kind of using the opportunity that I don't need. Like I still have lots of artwork for sale and so the potential for dollars is there. You know, I have other, some small passive sources of income and a couple of collaborations small passive sources of income and a couple of collaborations, but that you know, I think it's, it's, it's okay to. I don't know. I don't feel like if you're creative you can be creative all the time, like when people release an album, they take time between albums to make the next one.
Speaker 1:Exactly. We have talked about this one particular example on the show so many times and it came from photographer david dushman. I talk about it all the time. It's the whole the, the wave theory, right, yeah, and you know, you have. You rode the wave in um the. The exhibition was that final push into shore on the wave and you, you rode it through you finished up and there you were, standing on the wave and you you wrote it through.
Speaker 1:You finished up and there you were standing on the beach and the exhibition was finished and you'd taken all the paintings back to your studio. And so now you're at the stage where you're paddling back out into the water, um, and you're just hanging out on your surfboard waiting for the next wave to come, because you know it's going to come. Totally Right. This is the thing, and this is where we have to trust how the wave process works. Another wave always comes. It might not be as big, it might take a while, the waters could be very calm for a bit, but it's going to come. Yes, just how it works. But it's going to come Like yes, that's how it works. And so that period of landing on the beach and paddling back out and waiting for the next wave, that's the rest period. Right, and you can do while you're sitting out there on your surfboard. You can. You can chat with the other surfers. Hey, what? Yep? What do you do in the summer?
Speaker 1:Exactly other surfers. Hey, what, what are you doing this summer? You know, like kind of get a sense of what other people are doing out there or, um, have little conversations, and then eventually you'll be sitting there and then you'll see in the distance. You're like, hey, it's coming, the next, the next one's coming, and I'm ready for it, I am ready.
Speaker 1:I've been sitting here on my surfboard relaxing and chilling and I am ready to ride this wave. Yeah, and I think, I think it's such a great metaphor that's why I go back to it all the time. Oh, totally, it really works for what we totally do.
Speaker 2:Yes, and and the metaphor can like you, you have to be ready for it, and I think that's the thing. Like so you I mean you said it earlier just because you're on a break from the podcast doesn't mean that the work stops. Like the rest is different and you're doing different things. And so I have been taking inventory of my paints and canvases. Part of my debate on painting over canvases is involved in that. I want to make sure that I have a prepped studio so that when I am like this is the idea I now I have. I have ideas that I've been noodling and concepts that I and like when I am ready to go.
Speaker 2:I need to go and exactly like I need to, and I need to be ready to go and and like. Prep work is one of my least favorite things, like when I go to paint a bedroom or do a mural. I want to just put paint on the wall. The fact that I have to move furniture out of the way, vacuum the baseboards, dust the thing, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:I just want to do the thing Exactly.
Speaker 2:And so I need to force myself to prep and get everything ready, and part of that is getting ready for the next wave ready, and part of that is getting ready for the next wave Absolutely confidently, knowing that it is coming and I will have what I need on hand to, at a minimum, get started.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, there's nothing worse than inspiration striking and you go into the studio and it's like I'm all out of blue paint and I was going to paint skies today. Oh my God, it's so funny.
Speaker 2:You just said blue paint because that quite literally, was the example I was going to say I'm out of blue paint because that, like you have an idea and that's, I have 52 freaking colors in here and that's the one thing I'm missing. That's how it works, yeah.
Speaker 1:If you're not, yes, if you're not Correct, but I do think there's a period, before you even paddle back out, where you're just flamed out on the beach, when you're like whoa, that took that wave, took a lot out of me.
Speaker 1:I just need to flop down for a minute and look at the sky, whatever, and I think you know you mentioned the podcast. Yes, I will come back to the podcast in july, but but June is a complete month off from the show and it's funny because I can feel the finishing energy drain out of me, as once we get to about March, by the time we get to March with the podcast, I'm over it. I am done, I am.
Speaker 1:I the burnout is setting in, and that's why I do hiatus, because if I had to do this constantly, year round, year after year, with no break, I'd be the podcast would have ended, yes, years ago, like I just wouldn't have made it. I need the break, to just have a break Like, yeah, we do need that.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it just I mean at my paying job they give you vacation, and vacation is rest and break from the pattern, from the everyday, from the the thing. It doesn't mean you stop doing other things Like you're not. I mean even still. You could flake out on a beach for a week, you could lay in the backyard and do whatever, but like you still need vacation, we all need it. Bears hibernate Like you need to chill out.
Speaker 1:I did an episode way back on burnout and recognizing the signs and how to what you need to do when you're starting to feel, as I put a link to those in the show notes because I can't remember the episode number off the top of my head.
Speaker 1:But one of the things I do in that episode is I compare what we do to a professional athlete, because I think it's one of the easiest ways for people to understand. When you have a professional athlete, their entire earning potential is wrapped up in their physical and mental health. Okay, if their body is not performing in tip top shape, both physically and mentally, they can't earn their living. Their earning potential is threatened and as self-employed and particularly as creatives because a lot of what we do is very physical this is the same for us. Our entire business is wrapped up in our body, right? If we are not able to perform because we get sick or we're burnt out or we're mentally just not able to check in the way that we normally would, that impacts our ability to earn. And I think it's so interesting because professional sports, every single professional sport that you can think of and if there is one out there that doesn't do this, let me know, because I couldn't think of one. All of them have an end of season where they stop.
Speaker 1:We're in the middle of hockey playoffs right now. These guys who are playing and women because the women have their first playoffs this year too Very cool. So these athletes are in the finishing energy of their season. They are battered, they are bruised, they are tired, but the prize is there and they are going to do whatever they can to get that prize Because they know at the end there's rest. They are going to take time off and there will be those first few weeks where, I don't know, maybe they sit around and eat popcorn in their pajamas on the couch Yum Right, yum yeah Right.
Speaker 1:But as the off-season progresses, they'll get back into doing light workouts and then, as they get closer to training camp or whatever it is, they'll start getting really serious about getting back into shape. And it's they know their body needs that rest. It's completely worn out and frazzled and if they had to play another season that started the next week, there'd be injuries, there would be burnouts, it would be a disaster, right, and it wouldn't be enjoyable for the fans to watch that, because their favorite players would be off, injured and the play wouldn't be as good because everybody's just worn out. So and all sports do this Like, if you think about it, they all have their end of season. Some end a little sooner than others, depending how far they go in a playoff, but so nobody questions this. So why do we question the idea of taking a season ending break as self-employed creatives Like I'm throwing that question to everyone? Why?
Speaker 2:do we? Why do we Exactly creatives like I'm throwing that question to everyone why do we? Why do we? I exactly and interestingly, and I I really.
Speaker 2:when you just said training camp, they all do a training camp and that is even an interesting way to approach a new season is a training camp and to kind of give yourself you're gearing back up to get it, you're gearing back up exactly, and so it's not, and that's almost permission to have a to wind back into it, almost ease your way into it with routine building opportunities, with setting things up right, like making sure your planner's in place, making sure all of your paints are in fact there. I mean, I would suggest having all of that in place before training camp. But you know, I to me that training camp.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, the equipment manager.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly the equipment manager probably gets a few weeks off and then they're back in there and they're kind of like looking at what needs to be replaced Exactly, you know. So that kind of thing. The front office is back at work. They're strategizing for the next season or the, in our terms, the next project, or whatever it's going to be. So it's not like you just disappear although I mean you, but there's an easier pace to it like you're in your studio every weekend, you're inventorying your paints, like it's not, like there's no great pressure or rush, you can have the music on, you're just doing your thing, you're listening to audiobooks, whatever floats your boat, right yeah, and in fact I have been thinking about combining that with an open house.
Speaker 2:So, like, how can I slice and dice this time? And so if I'm just going to be hanging out in my studio listening to music, organizing my paint, why don't I tell people I'm going to be there, slap a sign outside and use it as an opportunity to connect with people IRL and possibly sell some stuff while I'm doing other things, when I know for sure that I'm going to be there? That's just in terms of like, how can I use that opportunity to anyway, there's just rest can be used still productively. I think that's the thing.
Speaker 1:Yes, you make a really good point and it just made me think. You know some of us I'm the introvert, you're the extrovert, so, understanding how your energy is brought back, it refills itself. You know, if you're an introvert, you energize by being away from people. If you're an extrovert, you energize by being around people. And for someone like you who's extroverted, having an open house is a great way to bring people into your life. While you're in this period of waiting for the next wave and get that, it's probably very energizing for you to have those people coming in and talking to them, Whereas for someone like me, I'd be like get out, get out, get out.
Speaker 1:You can come back later when my cup is filled back out. You know that's too funny, but which kind of person are you? This is for the listeners, you know. Ask yourself which kind of person are you. And if you know that you are the type of person that needs people around you to energize, then make steps to be around people and if you know, you're the type of person who needs to be away from people again, make steps to make that happen.
Speaker 1:And I think that kind of brings us to an interesting point is what is rest? Because I think it's different for everyone and one of the things I was really thinking about is, like the vacation. Right, you know the vacation I am going, we're going on a vacation and I am willing to bet for some of you out there listening, the thought of planning a family vacation is exhausting. Because is a vacation rest? If, like for me, a vacation is not rest? It's not, and I'm not planning a vacation for lots of people. A vacation is an adventure for me and it's fun and I love doing them and I love going on them, but it's not restful Because I'm the type of person when I'm on vacation I'm like go, go, go. We got to see all the things, we got to do the stuff I'm not good at sitting on a beach with a book.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm good at that, or a week maximum.
Speaker 1:By day seven.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'm ready to go home, let's move, let's get this party going again. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think you need to kind of ask yourself what is it that is restful to me and how do I go about getting that? And I think, depending where you are in your life because different seasons, you know finding that ability to have rest, whatever that is for you, can be really hard Because it might not be the family vacation where you are trying to figure out what all the kids are going to wear, and wrangle everybody's passports and documentation and you know, keeping your eye on making sure nobody goes running off in weird directions in an airport and all that stuff. That can be really stressful. That's stressful for a lot of people. I look back to my childhood. I don't think my mom really enjoyed any of our family vacations.
Speaker 2:Oh no, it's so funny. Look, I've been looking at photos. Funny enough and literally I'm like my mother looks so upset.
Speaker 1:Frazzled would be a good word.
Speaker 2:Completely frazzled and like, yeah, the side eye at my stepdad is like in some of the photos. Like yeah, you made me do this.
Speaker 1:And then you know, for others of us it may be very difficult to make time to remove yourself from your life. You know, yes, like if you're a caregiver or financially, you just can't afford to go on a vacation, like there's.
Speaker 2:So, exactly, it's a privilege to be able to get on an airplane and remove yourself from whatever's going on, even just an air, you know an Airbnb away for the weekend is a is a is a real treat. And and being able to just step away because trying to trying to step away when you're in the environment is is hard for sure Like if you did a staycation at home, you know, you probably you're probably still pulling out your sketch pad, you're probably still doing things that if you were on a hiking trip in indonesia, you might not pull out because you were too busy doing other things, I don't know, or you'd switch. I think that's the thing. I think for me, rest is switching and so it's.
Speaker 2:It's not that like I'm still being creative, I'm just doing it different ways. Like I've been trying so many different new recipes. I have been experimenting so widely with things that have been such epic failures I have not chronicled any of them, I just have been doing them and loving the experimenting process and the result has been absolute garbage, but the process and the learning along the way has been amazing, and so it's very restful in that I'm not producing, but I'm still flexing my creative muscles. That makes, yeah, and I think for me that's still rest. Like doing making stuff. That has been complete failure after complete failure, but still having so much fun trying. It's like I'm trying to stand up on my board a different way, waiting for the wave, and I'm just do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:And so I'm trying to stand up on my board a different way waiting for the wave and I'm just do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:And so I'm trying playing with new footwork, I'm playing with new surfboard wax, I'm trying the things waiting for and I'm loving the waiting, Like the waiting is really fun. And instead of just sitting on my board waiting which if that's what you need to do, do you know what I mean? Yeah, because I need the moments of sitting on my board waiting, which, if that's if that's what you need to do, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, I need the moments of sitting on the board waiting.
Speaker 2:Right and I do have. I have those, but not. It's few and far between.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, I haven't. I used to go to the West coast of Vancouver Island every November, storm season because I the biggest project of my year would wrap up at the end of October and I'd be absolutely exhausted, and so I would pack my all my art stuff into my car, I'd pack my dog into my car and we would go to the west coast of the island for two weeks and just me and my dog, like no people. And storm season was very intentional. I mean, it happened to align with the best time of the year for me where I needed the break, but also there's nobody there during storm season yes, and you took some epic photos.
Speaker 2:Like that was I. Whenever I think of those, I think of the photography that you did.
Speaker 1:Um, it was. It is such a great place to take photos. It really is. That's your thing. But, um, it was perfect because we would get up early and go walk the beach. The the place where I would get a.
Speaker 1:It was a resort on the beach, but I would get a private cabin, a dog-friendly cabin, so I would have a lot of space to myself with nobody in it except me and my dog, and it had a kitchen and everything so I could cook. I didn't have to go anywhere if I didn't want to, and so we would spend the morning on the beach. It wasn't a private beach, it was a public beach, but you had to go through private areas to get to it, so it was a pretty quiet beach. It was just surfers, that's all. It would be surfers and other people at the two resorts, and there was two private properties further down that had beach access, and then the next sort of beach was Pacific Rim National Park. So it's a national park, it's not, anyway.
Speaker 1:So it would just be we would spend the morning hiking, we'd come back, we'd have a bite to eat and then we'd go back out for another hike or something somewhere, because for me, being outdoors and moving is a big part in restorative treatment. Yeah, for me, I mean, it's meditative. All of this is meditative. It's just me and my brain, right, um? And then we would come back and usually storm season, it rains all the time. So you're out in your rain gear and you're the.
Speaker 1:The hotel even provides, uh, rain ponchos, which people use, and so you're out there and then, because it was November, it would be dark by four o'clock, so we'd be back in the cabin by four and I would just sit there and I would do what I call them rainbow squares, but it's just a kind of artwork that I do. That is very meditative. And basically I just gave myself permission to not think for two weeks and it would be by the end about, I would say, about eight or nine days, in my brain would start ticking like whoa. It would just start going into overdrive. Sorry, I didn't mean to snap my fingers on the, on the microphone, but it would just start going into overdrive with all the different ideas that were just churning in my head and by the end of the two weeks I would just be chomping at the bit to get going. So, oh God, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:That's me and that in terms of like turning my brain off. Turning my brain off is doing other things hiking, walking, and so even cleaning cleaning out my pantry and like wiping cleaning, like that satisfies my meditative activities right, yeah still moving and I think movement is very restful in some ways.
Speaker 1:Um, because it's. There's a flow that happens when you're totally I'm not saying go out and do exercise unless you really enjoy that, but yeah, but it's just something about the movements. There's something about cleaning, like you said, for some people it's baking, like about the movements. There's something about cleaning, like you said, for some people it's baking, like the kneading bread and working with dough and all of those kinds of things, anything where you're using your hands, like for other people that might be doing needlework or knitting.
Speaker 1:Knitting, yeah, knitting it's just a way for your. For me, how it works is my brain starts processing all the things that I had to put into the background while I was just trying to get through to the end of the project. Now my brain can start processing while my hands are busy, and it works really well for me. I haven't been able to take a vacation since 2018 like that. I haven't been able to. I'm not in a position where I can be gone for more than 24 hours from my home at the moment. So it is. It has been interesting trying to figure out how to work, rest in without being able to leave and, I'm going to be very honest, it's been very challenging to figure this out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can imagine yeah, I'm bet I. I know I'm not the only person in this position. Of course not. No yeah how do we incorporate rest on the daily um you know, or or when we're in situations where we can't physically remove ourselves to go somewhere else, or we can't physically remove the people that we habitate with?
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, exactly.
Speaker 1:For whatever reason, whether it's you know you're a caregiver or you've got children, or you're not in a position to have somebody come in and help out while you sneak off for a few days. So how do we, how do we lean into rest when it's hard to make that happen? I think that's something I'm finding a very challenging.
Speaker 1:I am at a point where I need to remove myself for a few weeks, but I am not. I don't have a mechanism to make that happen right now, so right, I am not. I don't have a mechanism to make that happen right now, so right, um, so I am trying to from. Gardening is a good way for me. I've spent a ton of time in my garden the last few months as the weather has gotten better.
Speaker 1:um, there's something about working with the earth and, uh, just being outdoors and moving. Um, it's been really interesting since my dog passed away last fall and I don't know if you feel this way because you lost Eddie shortly before I lost Sam. But even gardening, which has always been my solace, I guess or my way to recharge soulless, I guess or my way to recharge I have found this year, it actually makes me incredibly anxious to be in my garden in the evening without my dog. It's very weird. I've been really struggling with that because gardening is the thing that has always calmed me at the end of a busy day and now I just find myself very anxious because my dog's not there. Like, I'm more anxious the last two months than I was back in January and February, where you know you're indoors and it's still dark out, interesting quite early, and things like that so, but yeah, I it was.
Speaker 1:I wasn't expecting to feel this way, so it's been really interesting, because now gardening isn't bringing me like I'm still enjoying it, and I'm fine during the daytime, like on the weekends, if I go out, you know midday and I work out there, totally fine. It's that twilight, golden hour evening where I just find myself really uh. So I was out mowing the lawn at seven o'clock and the anxiety that enveloped me while I was mowing the lawn was wild. I was just like what is this Cause? Mowing the lawn is another thing that has always that I actually really enjoy doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's. It's funny that you say that actually, because I mowed the lawn for the first time literally last week and as I was doing it like Eddie wasn't here last summer either, and and but again this summer mowing the lawn I literally stopped because something on the lawn I thought it was poop and I was like, well, can't mow over that Cause you know, sense it everywhere and anyway, it was quite the moment in the lawn Like it. Really I felt very, yeah, like there's moments and I think it's grief and it's just trying to figure out how to process that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Grief and rest I think go hand in hand in terms of not that grief is rest, but that when you're processing grief and you're trying to seek rest, both things require you to fundamentally shift routines. I think that's the because if you don't, if you don't flip something on its head, I think it's too overwhelming. So, you know, I don't like, I still go for walks. I do not walk in the places that Eddie and I walked, I just don't, I can't, and so that's a flipping of the routine out of necessity. But there's also, you know, one of the things like I would regularly, particularly when Eddie couldn't get up the stairs anymore, I would make a point of going downstairs from my studio at least every hour. And then one of the things that I very quickly did was told myself I needed to actually be up here for three hours at a minimum. And so I gave myself like all right, you take up your glass of water and a bottle of water to refill your glass of water, you've got fresh water for your paint brushes, you've just taken a pee. You can go upstairs for three hours, turn music on, go and give yourself permission to break the habit. That was that other habit was out of necessity, now I can break it and do something because, just because I can and I think that that other habit was out of necessity, now I can break it and do something because, just because I can and I think that that is the very same thing with rest is that breaking that habit either out of necessity or because you can give yourself permission to do that?
Speaker 2:I think they're both very healthy, very healthy things and help in the processing of whatever it is, whether it's processing and waiting for the next wave in the rest phase, or whether you're processing grief. You need to take that. You need to take that time. Like I'm always surprised by people who literally, like they say goodbye to their dog and the next day they go out and get a dog and I'm like what, how do you what? Like you need to process that grief. And I'm not I'm not condemning anybody for doing that Cause. Good on you that you have that love in your heart, but to me I just I need that time to process that grief.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I, you, you hit on a bunch of very interesting things there. I, I definitely need time to. I thought I would be ready for another dog this spring, but I'm not. Um, I got my garden refenced in March. Um, because I was like you know, then I, I can get a new dog once the class is all redone and everything. And, uh, I realized halfway through the, while the fencing crew is here. I was like, um, I'm not ready for this, but at least now. At least now it's like training camp, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, so, the right dog comes along and it will.
Speaker 1:I know it will. I am ready to bring it home. Yes, exactly. So there is that. Yes, definitely the grief component. But you make some really interesting points there in, like breaking the habits, because I don't think we realize how easily we get into these habits. Like there's a lot of things that I have noticed that the last 18 to 24 months of sam's life is he. He became a senior dog and this is what happens, and the same thing can happen with parents and you know, like there's like I just changed so much of my routine to better fit him, with no regrets, like oh, no, no, no, no, no, the bonuses would be.
Speaker 2:Yes, do it again for another decade. A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:But it's kind of realizing now that he's gone and I think there is a period of where you're kind of like it feels disloyal to change your habit immediately. So there's that little battle going on in your head but at the same time it's just reminding myself that like you can do things different ways now because he's not here to kind of dictate Sounds so weird. It's not like he dictated.
Speaker 2:But you know what I'm talking about right.
Speaker 1:It was a conscious choice to make those decisions, but now I can make the conscious choice to do something different.
Speaker 2:And that's a freedom to me, that is a gift.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think where you were kind of going with this is that we get into these habits, take grief out of it, losing something we get into these habits in our work where we don't even question why we're doing something a certain way because it's just the habit or the or the rut, if you want to say, that we have fallen into, and sometimes we just need to give ourselves permission to step back and say, but why am I, why am I doing it this way?
Speaker 2:yep. So, for instance, even even like palette choices, color to, I always tool choices I reach for. I always reach for the same colors. Yes, I always reach for the same paintbrush. And so, and this and this, again, it's another lesson that I find I remind myself. And all the time other people drink shart, but break the pattern. So use your non-dominant hand, pick your least favorite brush and only use that one. Pick a limited palette, only paint with that palette. Try a new paint brand, try a new tool or technology. That is breaking a habit and that, to me, is like that. Experimentation that I'm allowing myself right now is restful, because sometimes it teaches me new things. Wow, that's a really pretty palette. I should reach for that more often. Or my palette's really awesome. I'm never breaking from my habit. Like I can learn both of those things. Yes, yes, you can Through play, and the only way I learn is through trying the opposite.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think for me that's actually more energizing than restful. But I think if we're talking about like where you can fit rest in especially, on a daily basis, like I think you can take a look at those same habits and ask yourself okay, well, like, why do I work in my studio from nine to five every day? I work in my studio from nine to five every day. I'm self-employed, Like I could work from 7 pm till 9 pm.
Speaker 1:I could go work in the kitchen, I could take a break at 10 o'clock in the morning if it's what I need to do, like. Sometimes we just have those days where you sit down and nothing's working, and it's usually for me. I can't speak for everyone else, but for me it's usually because I'm tired, I'm cranky, it's because I need a rest, and sometimes the best thing I can do for my day and my productivity is to literally shut my computer off at 9.30 in the morning and go for a walk, whereas normally I would go for a walk at lunchtime or after dinner, when it's traditional free time.
Speaker 2:Right, yes, why am?
Speaker 1:I doing that. I am the boss. If I need to take a break at 9.30 and go for a walk or go to the gym or go read a magazine on the deck with a cup of coffee, I can do that. If it's going to make the rest of my day more productive, which almost invariably it does, Because I just listened to my body and was like this isn't working. And sometimes we don't even see it. Sometimes it's a friend who says hey, it's not working for you today. Just shut it off and go do something else, because that's what we need to do. So I think when you get into that whole habit breaking, yeah, if it's not, if you're not feeling it, ask yourself why and what you can do to change it.
Speaker 2:And yes, and even your habits are working for you. If you're in a period of rest, you're. You don't want to stick. Maybe don't stick with those like artistic, creative, business process habits, but you still so. For instance, if you're at home, you're not leaving. It's a staycation If that room is still there and it's calling to you because it's there and you can't help yourself and it is your escape from the other people in the house. But you still need to rest from what you're typically producing. Use that as an opportunity to play and experiment and break from habit, so that it is a rest from the everyday. It might not be restful, but it's still a break.
Speaker 2:We were on a break, it's still, yes, and, like Frankie says, relax, but it's a. You know like it's. And I think honestly, a creative person like, does your brain ever really stop working? No, are you always. Are there always ideas and opportunity? Like? I don't think a creative person, at least I hope when, yeah, like when, when something is miraculous and presents itself, I think we're all ready to witness it, and so I don't think any of us ever really turn off, and that's why I D, that's why ideas come from the craziest places.
Speaker 2:People will say, I was folding the laundry and the way the sock fell and the sunlight hit it, boom and like boom, the song was written. Boom, the painting was done. Boom, I got my camera. Boom, like all of those things could have come from that one incident.
Speaker 1:And this, I think, is why it's so important to put our phones down sometimes Some of my best ideas. I don't take transit much anymore, but I used to travel a lot for work and so I took transit a lot in whatever city I was in. Like I know the Toronto transit system better than I know the Vancouver transit system because I spent so much time in Toronto for work and it would be so interesting my business partner and I would be on like the streetcar or something. He would be on his phone and I am the type of person who looks out the window Like I love looking out the window.
Speaker 2:Yes, and looking at the people looking out the windows like love it all.
Speaker 1:Looking at what's going on out the window, looking at the storefronts, like that's where I get some of my best ideas because I'm in this place where it's like forced.
Speaker 1:You know I can't go anywhere. I'm not the driver. I need to be on this vehicle to get from A to B so I can be on my phone. And sometimes you are on your phone, sure, out of necessity or whatever right, but sometimes the best thing you can do is same as being a passenger in a car on a road trip and just staring out the window or, like you said, doing laundry in the light and the sock. Laundry for me is another very meditative activity that I actually really enjoy. I like the process of folding things. I like there's just something very methodical about it. Yes, my brain goes into that different place where it's kind of going.
Speaker 2:I'm just floating around out here. Yes, honestly, when I hang it on the line in the summertime, so like it's just getting to that weather where I can, I hang laundry on the line For the so like it's just getting to that weather where I can.
Speaker 2:I did it just for the first time, yes, and like hanging first off, the smell is amazing. But secondly, I delight in how I arrange it. It's not just what comes out of the basket and what goes up, I arrange it. And it's funny because I didn't realize I was doing it until a neighbor was like look at that lines like a little color color coded there, and I was like what? Huh? But I arrange it in a way that is pleasing to my eye, like everything is a little opportunity to just have a little fun and like anyway, so that when you look out at the laundry it just makes me happy.
Speaker 1:No, I get it, I get it. I organize everything into rainbows, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, one of the girls at work organized the supply cupboard the other day, like a couple of weeks ago, in. So, first off, everything is in perfect bins, so you see everything. Then everything is labeled. But, further to that, everything within each category is in rainbow order. And I said to her one day like, literally, I said to her I'm like I just opened the supply cupboard and just take a deep breath, cause I'm like, literally, I'm like we're okay, cause it's the most, it's most. And she, literally she was like I was having a shit Friday and I was like, what am I going to do on a shitty Friday afternoon? You know what I'm going to do. I'm going to organize the supply cupboard. I'm going to make everybody else's day brighter, and mine. And literally I'm like you. There you go.
Speaker 1:But see, there she was. She was having a lousy day, she wasn't getting anything accomplished that she was, quote unquote, supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2:Supposed to be doing yes.
Speaker 1:And so she got up and she did something that for a lot of us, would be very methodical and very like that getting you into that meditative state. Like I don't think we realize how many things there are out there that we can do, that put us into that meditative zone if we just allow it. Like, if you go into the idea that folding laundry is the biggest pain in the ass um, because I know for a lot of people that's how they feel it, that's how you're going to, that's how you're going to be grouchy and cranky and you're not going to get into that flow while you're holding the laundry. But if you just go into it with the idea that I got a full laundry, so I'm just going to fold the laundry, you know, or I'm just going to wash the dishes, because dishes need to be washed.
Speaker 1:I don't enjoy it, but they have to be done, so I'm just going to be in the moment with washing the dishes. And maybe that's part of what rest is is being in the moment of these mundane things, Do you?
Speaker 2:want to hear a weird folding the laundry confession. This podcast has taken a turn. When I fold the laundry, I love pulling it out of the dryer when it's warm. It's delightful. When I fold the laundry, I love pulling it out of the dryer when it's warm, it's delightful. But Brian has you know, we all have our house sweatpants anyway and whenever they get washed which is quite regularly because they get worn basically every day after work when they come out of the dryer warm, I put them over my shoulder and I tie them around my neck like a little Superman cape. And it's like this warm, little, comforting Superman cape hug while I fold the rest of the laundry, kramer on Seinfeld.
Speaker 1:That was the whole episode on getting yeah and like putting it in the pizza oven Exactly.
Speaker 2:Anyway, I absolutely love it, and then I just I wait until it's cooled down and then I take it off and I fold the sweatpants and they go wherever they need to go Laundry.
Speaker 1:I totally get where you're talking about. Laundry day is like a very enjoyable day for me. I always do laundry I'd say nine times out of 10, I do it on a Sunday, and in the summer it's not as enjoyable, because I wash it and then I hang it outside. But in the winter I wash it and I put it in the dryer, and I also move from upstairs in my studio to downstairs.
Speaker 1:Yes, downstairs the rec room which is right next to the laundry room and the rec room, has this massive window that gets a ton of light, and it's got floor-to-ceiling bookshelves full of books, and there's just something about that room that when I go work in it it's a completely different vibe, and it's the sound of the washing machine and the sound of the dryer are very soothing to me.
Speaker 1:If I wasn't actually doing something, I would fall asleep to them, and so while I'm waiting for the laundry to finish the washer the dryer coming know, instead of running up and down the stairs, I just take something downstairs to work on, and so suddenly I'm working in this different environment. I've got these soothing sounds and, like you said, you take stuff out of the dryer and it's got that smell that dryer clothes have and it's warm and it's cozy. Dryer clothes have and it's warm and it's cozy, and I'll fold it on a chair in the in the rec room and then carry on with whatever I was working on. But there's something about it's very soothing to me, it's very restful, and there's something about working in a different space environment, my house space that I really like.
Speaker 1:Um it's. It's one of my favorite days.
Speaker 2:People think I'm crazy when I say this, but I really enjoy laundry day no, I, I totally get it and it's interesting because even within like it's a regular routine, but for that regular routine it's a break in routine.
Speaker 1:Yes. And it's a chore that has to be done, so why not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, why not Exactly? And I think that I think in that, even in just in terms of a creative expression, like finding little moments to do, creative expression whether it's putting the laundry away, noticing new smells, paying attention to the world around you, I think all of that is restful and I think, taking I think and giving yourself the opportunity to just. There's a scene in one of our favorite movies called Four Last Songs. It's a great movie Stanley Tucci, Reese Ifans, Hugh Bonneville and Shannon Malone, it's in production.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, anyways.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's a great, it is a one. It is a one, it's a wonderful, wonderful movie anyway. And one of the characters in the movie is sort of a very flighty character, but she picks up a handful of sand and smells it. And this person looks at her like fuck, are you on? Like that, you're smelling sand. And she's like, take, like, just take a moment, smell this. Like, smell the trees around you.
Speaker 2:This is and she says it in French, so of course it sounds way more beautiful, but like, but the way she says it, and it is so true, like just take a deep breath. And like those moments of rest can be so brief, but if you just, it's like flipping something on its head, or spending an extra five minutes at the canvas before you start, or just switching the palette, or I don't know, painting in a new location, trying writing instead of photography, like there's so many different ways you can let it rest, but still be creative, still let your brain chew, not stop doing. I think a lot of people have trouble stop, like, truly, truly stopping. I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's very hard for all of us. I think yeah, and so flipping it is, I think, to me the easiest way to.
Speaker 1:I think you can also just take a break from being creative. You don't need to be creative while you rest. If you just need to lie on the couch and stare at the ceiling, yeah, that's okay. Like your brain doesn't have to be. You know, like there's. So I think.
Speaker 2:I've rewatched True Blood recently, the entire series, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:There are so many different ways to find rest and I think maybe that's what this is. If you're going to take anything away from this episode, I think probably the key things are, first of all, to ask yourself are you getting rest? Where is it? What does it look like Like? Actually, think about where is my, where am I getting my rest? And if you're not getting any, you need to think about why that is. Yeah, and there's many reasons why it could be.
Speaker 1:It could be that you're overwhelmed with work, or you've got a lot of deadlines, or you need the money, or you've got four kids at home and you're just. You know, they're all under the age of 10. I don't know, you're just trying to survive, to get to the end of the day. There could be so many reasons for it. But I think you know we need to think about, like, where can we insert rest into our day? And it could be for five minutes, it could be for half an hour.
Speaker 1:If you're lucky enough, maybe you get to go away for two weeks with nobody else with you. But figure out where you can insert that rest and think about, like you we just talked about, like how a lot of the chores we need to do are very meditative, like ask yourself instead of going into doing a specific chore with you know, irritation, like if you just go into it as a way to just let your brain go somewhere else. I mean, you hear people talk about rage baking or rage cleaning and stuff, because they do it, because it's a physical activity that lets them release whatever is in them while still being productive. So maybe you don't need to rage bake or rage laundry or any of that but maybe it's rest bake or rest laundry.
Speaker 1:It's your way of letting your brain have its 10 minutes to just float away without you interfering with it.
Speaker 2:And I think too. You know, as you're talking, I think a lot of times we think about rest as like sleep or stop. Well, that is important to you. You do need sleep, of course, of course, but rest is restoration. Rest is so much it's restoring. And so how do you fill your cup back up? How do you change your perspective? And so telling myself doing laundry is awesome, instead of telling myself doing laundry is shit, might be part of that restoration. Or filling my cup up simply by changing my perspective right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's one thing you should do. I think put your phone down for set periods of time. I was just talking about this in my mastermind group we were talking about gardening, actually, and I had mentioned that I was feeling anxious and one of the women said, oh, try not having your headphones in when you're in the garden. And I said well, actually my phone doesn't come outside with me when I'm in the garden. My phone is in the house. So, like, where are those moments where you could put your phone down without having? Or, if you're, if the moment there's a lull, your first instinct is to pick up your phone. Try to put it back down and let yourself be in low lull. Yes, if that makes sense. Um, I think, honestly, I think our phones are. If we don't manage them carefully, I think they can be so hard on our mental health.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know, I don't. I think they don't let, they don't let for restoration. I think there's too much and people will say it's inspiration, but I think it's a lot of competition and we don't see it as competition. But we do see it as competition.
Speaker 1:We compare ourselves to other people Look at them On social media and stuff. Yeah, for sure, exactly On social media and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure, exactly.
Speaker 1:But there's also all the neurological stuff being on a phone fires a lot of different parts of our brain that are not restorative, yeah, so I do think it's important to put the phone down for 10 minutes here or there. I've gotten really strict with my phone behavior in the last six months. I I have do not disturb on my phone from nine till three during the day, so the only person who can get through to me as my mom, basically.
Speaker 2:Right, right. Speaking of which, I need to call my mother one more time. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I don't get text messages, I don't get phone alerts, like nothing, just so that's, that's for productivity, so I can actually get my, get my work done. But yeah, when I go out into places where I need to refill my cup, I try to leave my phone behind. And there's times where it's annoying, like there's times where I'm in the garden and I'm like, oh, that's such a great, like that flower is such a beautiful yes, colors and like I wish I could snap a photo of it. I don't have it, but you know, it's my own garden. I can go back in the house later on and bring my camera. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:So anyway, I know, and honestly, those moments I literally then I think to myself what would I do with that photo? I'd just take the photo and then I'd do what with it. Probably nothing, probably. Delete it a year from now, after I never look at it, spend five minutes and just actually enjoy the thing so and yeah, if, if last weekend um the northern lights were visible, pretty much anywhere in canada that you were.
Speaker 1:Yep, I was in bed, yeah, um, and it was so interesting here in vancouver we never get to see the Northern Lights, like this was a very monumental thing.
Speaker 1:And people started posting their pictures around 11 PM at night and I was like looking at the pictures, because I had looked out the window multiple times and had seen nothing. And these pictures were like wow, like what are they seeing? And I was going out there and I'm like I'm not seeing anything. And then people slowly started to admit, oh, you can only see it when you hold your phone camera up to the sky in night mode. And then it's sort of it's, I guess, kind of a long exposure type of thing, right, and so suddenly then the colors pop. And so I went outside and once I held my phone up and I could see them, and then I realized okay, those wispy things I was looking at, that's the Northern Lights. It wasn't very spectacular to the naked eye at all. And so I was saying to a friend a few days later, like it was really cool, don't get me wrong, I'm so glad I went out and looked and it was awesome.
Speaker 1:And once you could identify them, you could see them moving. But I said it's still a bucket list because I want a good item for me, because I want to go somewhere where I can look up the sky and not have to look through my damn phone to see this incredible thing Like I just want to be in the moment without my phone there.
Speaker 2:Correct, because I can look through my phone and see Pokemon.
Speaker 1:So you know in terms of reality right.
Speaker 2:And no, I'm totally with you. And in terms of rest, sleep is my favorite pastime and the memes the next day after the Northern Lights were hysterical because it had, literally I saw a meme. It was basically like the entire world leaning out their window and then on the other half of the screen was, it said, me, and it was just this man snuggled in bed, and that was entirely me. Brian and I were asleep in bed probably by like 8.45 that night because we were whooped from life and all of the things, and that was like I remember saying the Northern lights are tonight and I was like, yeah, but I really need to sleep and so we prioritize that and that's what we did.
Speaker 1:And I don't regret that. Well, the next night they were also supposed to be visible and a lot of people who had not stayed up the night before stayed up to try and see them. And it was really interesting because I went out like I'm an. I'm, I am a night and I understand. It's very rare I'm in bed before midnight and I it's very rare that I'm up before 8 am. So that's just my.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's my routine. But yeah, I went out and there was nothing going on and I was just like you know what. I'm not going to sit here for two hours holding my phone up to the sky.
Speaker 1:I saw them last night and it, you know, and I, the next time I see the Northern Lights, it's going to be without my phone. So, yeah, I went to bed too, but that's too funny. And so, yeah, I went to bed too. That's too funny, but that's my point is that we just, you know, we need to take a break from our devices. I think, and I think sometimes, when it comes to rest, we just need to be a lot more honest with ourselves. But whether we're making time for it, whether we're getting rest, and how we can incorporate rest into our day, even if it's for five minutes, yeah, because I think we can all probably figure out a way to get five minutes. But yeah, and maybe it is looking at how you can break routines or approach things differently, all of those different things. So, hopefully, as we head into the summer I know we often talk about winter being a season of hibernation- and rest.
Speaker 1:I'm actually incredibly productive in the winter, but summer is when I am dying to like my creative energy goes out the window and I just want to like be outside and not thinking like smelling the flowers. Yeah, like be outside and not thinking like smelling the flowers. I find it very hard to do client work in the summer, so but that's another thing about being a working creative is.
Speaker 1:That's why the podcast goes on hiatus for the summer, because that is one less thing I have to do in the summer, and I rejig when I work during the summer. In the summer I do get up early, because it's light at 4.30 in the morning here, and so I'm usually up by 6 o'clock and I will work in my studio. Instead of working from 9 till 5, I'll work from 6 till 1. Because by 1 o'clock it's too hot, and so you can change up your routine to help better suit how your personal flows go, better suit how your personal flows go. So, um, yeah, is there anything else we we were going to talk about here, or did we get it all? I think? I think we got.
Speaker 2:I think we got it all. I mean, I think it's just, it's it's a check in with yourself. I think that's the key. And like, what is your definition of rest? What does that look like for you and how can you fit it in big, small, medium, large? And then also, I would say, how does that fuel your creative process? Like, how does it help restore you, how does it help fill you up, whether that's with energy or artistic idea, or both, you know.
Speaker 1:And I think one thing we didn't mention, but that is important, is it's okay to ask for rest time. Um, I think a lot of us feel like we can't do that. We've got too many commitments, We've got too many people we're looking after, um, too many errands we have to do. I think it's okay to every now and then, stick your hand up and say hey.
Speaker 2:I need to rest, I need I need 24 hours.
Speaker 1:I need some help.
Speaker 1:It's okay to ask for help and hopefully we're surrounded with people who are more than willing to step in and offer that help when we say we need it. So, yeah, all right. Well, I think that's probably it for this week and, as I said, this is the last episode for season five, so we are both off for the summer to go do other things. Yep, be magical, be magical. And, as I mentioned, if you are a regular listener to the show and you would like to give us some input into what you would love to see in season six, please do, because I will, like I said, be taking June off, but once we get to July, I start to miss the show and I start getting ready to work on what we're going to be doing for season, the new season. So, yes, if you want to send me a note in June with some suggestions, I'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:And, as I mentioned, if you want access to brand new episodes throughout the summer, you can head over to our Patreon it's patreoncom forward slash and she looked up and you can join us there for the summer and get access to those free not free to the premium subscriber episodes. Yeah, so I will be around during the summer. Heather's around. You can find us both online. Heather is at Heather Travis, I am at Fine Lime Designs, and you can reach the podcast at andshelookedup or andshelookedup at gmailcom. So, heather, thank you so much as always for being here for the whole season.
Speaker 1:Of course, it is the highlight of my recording calendar when I get to hang out with you, ditto, so it's it's fun and you're going to be back next season.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, have a great summer everyone. I hope that you find some time to fit some rest in and enjoy the summer and stay safe. It's already wildfire season here in BC. It's not good, so stay safe and be careful and we'll see you all in September. Thanks everyone.
Speaker 1:Toodle-oo, thank you so much for joining us for the and she Looked Up Creative Hour. Thank you for joining us for the and she Looked Up Creative Hour. If you're looking for links or resources mentioned in this episode, you can find detailed show notes on our website at andshelookedupcom. While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter for more business tips, profiles of inspiring Canadian creative women and so much more. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the show via your podcast app of choice so you never miss an episode. We always love to hear from you, so we'd love it if you'd leave us a review through itunes or apple podcasts. Drop us a note via our website at and she looked upcom, or come say hi on instagram at and she looked up. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next week.
